The True Color Ferdinand Marcos

[marmaim]

init ng ulo nila...hehehe
i agree with yummy though. your logic is flawed dimmu.
kaya ako humingi ng isa pang halimbawa ay para malaman kung ano ang gusto mo talagang tukuyin regarding matters of "opinion." to be honest kasi, hindi ko maintindihan sa unang halimbawa mo kung seryoso ka o sarcastic. medyo gets ko naman na which it is sa 2nd example mo.
pre, your reasoning is unreasonable and contradictory. may statements ka claiming facts of things na "hindi napatunayan" and then sinundan mo ng bago maging facts "dapat muna napatunayan." eh ano ba talaga?
sabi mo rin hindi dapat ipilit na tama ang opinion ni yummy pero you keep on insisting na lahat ng opinion ay tama. again, ano ba talaga?
see what i mean about contradictory? in my opinion, not only do you contradict yourself, you seem bent on twisting and molding your own brand of logic just to contradict others. hindi naman po lahat ng pagpuna sa kamalian natin ay mali. hindi po tayo dapat maging defensive at every turn. introspection is useful sometimes.
regarding biographies and economies po during marcos' time or anybody else's time, mahirap pong mag claim ng "significant facts." there would be too many factors and too many angles unless we would settle for simple factual details like dates and numbers.
biographies and economics are part of history. in posting such in a forum, they are slaves to our opinions and not to facts.
seriously unreasonable: "pink ang langit" at "kuwadrado ang bola"
i mentioned this previously: stating anything just for the heck of it and then cowering under the words "in my opinion" is shallow and juvenile -- perhaps even empty-headed.
that goes for statements in total conflict with known and incontrovertible facts then claiming such as subjects of one's personal opinion as a matter of prerogative or privilege.
that is flawed logic. to do so twice is just to be truly stubborn.

[yummyyana23]

Ikaw ang matigas ang ulo at di nakakaintindi. It's very illogical na sarili mong analysis and conclusion ang ginagamit mo tapos yun na ang sasabihin mong tama..

I didn't said na tama mga sinasabi ko, but unlike you i substantiate it. Eh ikaw double standards? Ok fine, tama ka na..for a thought ganun pala dapat ang thread starter kailangan laging tama. oh that's just so lame..


Uulitin ko, the fact na di naman napatunayan na CIA nga ang nagpatalsik kay marcos..
  Really? Nagbasa ka ng wikileaks tapos di mo matanggap na may kinalaman ang US sa bansa natin lalo na nung time ng 1986 Marcos ouster? Oh come on, pride mo na lang yan sir Dimmu.

Imagine I gave you links, i gave you titles of books where you could refer and even gave you the benefit of debunking my arguments pero you failed to elevate your case. You just lost your credibility as a worthy forumer here pag ganyan ka sumalag ng posts.


The fact na di rin napatunayan na si Makoy ang nagpapatay kay Ninoy.. This came from you not mine! Pero kung gagawa ka ng separate thread for this, sige game akong pagusapan.


It will remain na opinion/haka haka/ kuro kuro lang ito otherwise magiging facts ito kung napatunayan.


Again one of your trademarks of hiding behind the bush, pag meron kang ayaw tanggapin na insight, ito lagi ang linya mo.. magamit nga rin ito sa love interest ko.


Your're insisting about CIA samantalang hindi naman yun ang main topic dito. Ang post ko sa taas eh biography and Economy during Marcos, yung ang sinasabi kong facts sayo, ngayon kung may tanong ka dun, dun mo ibase ang tanong..

As far as the title says, True Color of Ferdinand Marcos, i don't see any inconsistency dahil related pa rin naman sa "biography" este buhay at Economic conditions nung time ni Makoy (Lupus years). Lalo na yung pagbagsak nya sa kapangyarihan. Wow ayos ka rin mag-delimit ng topic, pag talagang ayaw mo ng posts you'll howl to return to your issue. That's plain bigotry! Better check yours ikaw ata ang nawawala madalas.

Tinatanong mo sa akin porke sabi ko sa wikileaks galing, pero binasa mo ba yung post ko? yung laman ng post ko ang importante dito. Ngayon kung may tanong ka dun, yun ang pagtalunan natin..

 Yeah i read them, and they're somewhat inconsistent with your line of reasoning dahil siguro sa sobrang kawindangan, i was explaining part of the downfall of Marcos was the change of heart of the US gov't in favor of the opposition. I raised the CIA since, authors of books, and personalities behind the 1986 Marcos ouster have all indicated the US had a hand in Makoy's ouster. I substantiated it further using logic and emperical data, na pag suportado ng US ang isang Pangulo natin, hindi sya nawawala sa posisyon o nabibigyan pa ng termino. If you're not in the good graces of the US may paglalagyan ka.

Hindi yung gagawa ka ng kwento tapos pipilitin mo akong maniwala sayo..
Tell that to the historians, tell it to the pundits, tell this to the political and historical analysts. Better yet tell this to yourself. Kwento? Well, lahat naman insights may kwento, lahat ng opinion at facts may kwento. It just a matter of delivering your arguments that should be well substantiated. 

Sa sobrang unreasonable mo, personal na ata ang ginagawa mo.. But i still respect you because I know it is a universal human vulnerability that we construct our own facts, with the help of like minded people, to support our world views, desires and ambitions.  Sometimes our assumed facts create contradictory and unsustainable opinions and world views.


Oh so now you're taking the high road? Just observe how you deliver you tirade to those who oppose your thoughts. You are what you deserve sir Dimmu Borgir. I condemn what you practice here.

[Dimmu Borgir]

si yummy lang mainit ulo dito.. hehehehehe

Uulitin ko ang mga facts lang na claim ko:

1. Biography of marcos
2. Economy during marcos
3. BNPP

I didn't said na tama sinasabi ko,

Then, anong pinagtatalunan natin dito?? 

Really? Nagbasa ka ng wikileaks tapos di mo matanggap na may kinalaman sila sa bansa natin lalo na nung time ng 1986 Marcos ouster?

HIndi ko sinabing di ko matanggap, ang sinasabi ko wlang ebidensya na sila nga ang nasa likod ng pag-alis ni Marcos. Remember, there is EDSA People Power, ito yung katotohanan.

As far as the title says, True Color of Ferdinand Marcos, i don't see any inconsistency dahil related pa rin naman sa biography este buhay ni Makoy


Focus on main topic, nawawala na yung essence ng topic kung mga related lang ang pag uusapan natin. There are so many topics na related kay marcos but it's too long kung yun ang pag uusapan natin.

Tell that to the pundits, tell this to the political and historical analysts.

Yeah, they are just analyst, this is all about analysis but in the end, di mo masasabing yun na ang tama. Natural lang sa tao na gumawa ng sarili nyang opinyon pero kung sasabihin nating ang opinyon natin ay yun na ang totoo at yun ang dapat paniwalaan, mawawala na ang essence ng facts.. 
 
Oh so now you're taking the high road? Just observe how you deliver you tirade to those who oppose your thoughts.

Again and again, this is NOT my personal thoughts/opinions..

Sinasabi ko na nga paulit ulit na hindi ko ito personal thoughts, pinagpipilitan mo pang ring personal thoughts ko ito..

Kaya nga sabi ko from Wikileaks, from kung anu anong source to justify na HINDI ko personal idea ang ginagamit ko, BAkit ba hindi mo ito maintindihan?

[Dimmu Borgir]

this is very good argument, though...

Pls. read yung sinasabi kong facts...

sabi mo rin hindi dapat ipilit na tama ang opinion ni yummy pero you keep on insisting na lahat ng opinion ay tama. again, ano ba talaga?

Tama ang opinion ni Yummy in the sense na sa kanya lang pero pag dumating na sa puntong sasabihin sa akin ni Yummy na opinion nya ay tama, mali na yun.

Pero mag iiba yun kung yung opinyon ni Yummy ay suportado ng ebidensya o sinasabi ng karamihan. Sa madaling salita napatunayan na yun talaga ang totoo.   

In case dito, wala namang ebidensya na nagsasabi na CIA nga ang dahilan ng pagalis ni Marcos, sabihin na nating may motibo pero di pa rin natin maiijustify na using our own conclusion na CIA nga ang dahilan, Unlike sa people power, which is a fact na yun ang dahilan ng pag alis ni marcos.

We cannot assume a certain thing using our imaginative mind and sabihin nating yun na ang totoo..

Can u get my point?

biographies and economics are part of history. in posting such in a forum, they are slaves to our opinions and not to facts.

Tama ka. Nagkakatalo lang naman dahil ipinipilit ni Yumi na paniwalaan ko ang opinion nya..

in my opinion, not only do you contradict yourself, you seem bent on twisting and molding your own brand of logic just to contradict others. hindi naman po lahat ng pagpuna sa kamalian natin ay mali. hindi po tayo dapat maging defensive at every turn. introspection is useful sometimes.
regarding biographies and economies po during marcos' time or anybody else's time, mahirap pong mag claim ng "significant facts." there would be too many factors and too many angles unless we would settle for simple factual details like dates and numbers.
biographies and economics are part of history. in posting such in a forum, they are slaves to our opinions and not to facts.

+1 for you.. What can i say? I your respect opinion.

 

[yummyyana23]

si yummy lang mainit ulo dito.. hehehehehe

Wow Survival Ploy ba ito Sir Dimmu? Pity you!

Uulitin ko ang mga facts lang na claim ko:

1. Biography of marcos
2. Economy during marcos
3. BNPP


Yeah it all falls on your excellent outline of your bigotry trap. Why am i not surprised?

Then, anong pinagtatalunan natin dito?? 

Uhm let me guess, Bigotry? Idiocy? oh perhaps Irrationality?
 

HIndi ko sinabing di ko matanggap, ang sinasabi ko wlang ebidensya na sila nga ang nasa likod ng pag-alis ni Marcos. Remember, there is EDSA People Power, ito yung katotohanan.

No evidence? You've browsed on wikileaks files, these are files that were hacked mainly from the CIA, ilang beses ng naglabas sa net ang Wikileaks ng classified ads, many were misadventures of the US government in the Philippines. Sa dami ng references na binigay ko sa iyo ni isa hindi sinalag. i don't know if your playing stupid or really are stupid.

 Your pride must have been hurt so deep that that you can't even take in the bitter pill



Focus on main topic, nawawala na yung essence ng topic kung mga related lang ang pag uusapan natin. There are so many topics na related kay marcos but it's too long kung yun ang pag uusapan natin.

There you go again with your deceitful and failed trademark. Ayos ka rin ha? I-delimit nanaman ang topic for you own convenience? Bangkarote na ang linya na ito Sir Dimmu spare us please.



Yeah, they are just analyst, this is all about analysis but in the end, di mo masasabing yun na ang tama. Natural lang sa tao na gumawa ng sarili nyang opinyon pero kung sasabihin nating ang opinyon natin ay yun na ang totoo at yun ang dapat paniwalaan, mawawala na ang essence ng facts.. 
 
And what do you consider yourself aside from being an opinionated freak who disguises himself as the bearer of the truth and fails miserably in rationalizing issues he himself has started?
 

Again and again, this is NOT my personal thoughts/opinions..

Sinasabi ko na nga paulit ulit na hindi ko ito personal thoughts, pinagpipilitan mo pang ring personal thoughts ko ito..


Then who wrote those posts under the handle name "Dimmu Borgir? your unconscious you? Grabe na ito..desperado ka na talaga sir.  How dare you use and invoke them in our debates, tapos ganito ang reply? Marunong ka ba talagang mag-analisa at mag-sinsin? Are you trying to make fools out of us?


Kaya nga sabi ko from Wikileaks, from kung anu anong source to justify na HINDI ko personal idea ang ginagamit ko, BAkit ba hindi mo ito maintindihan?


You invoke as your reference topics lifted from web encyclopedias and wikileaks it means that they form as backbone of your argument to make your arguing well established, but still they're are on a shaky ground if logic per se would be used to substantiate it.

Bakas na bakas sir na nawindang ka na sa mga pinagsasabi mo. I dare say wag kang magpost ng issues na hindi mo inaral o naiintidihan. Even you posts facts these will remain relative more so with opinions, worse if they are not even well argued or substantiated. Para tayong nagkaroon ng misinformation drive about Philippine History. 

Balikan mo na lang ako pag nabasa mo na yung mga books, references, links na sinabi ko sa iyo na basahin mo. Until then Irrelevance and Obscurity will remain as the main themes of your thread.


I can't help but utter this quote i saw in some forum : "If you can't stun people of their intelligence, amaze them with your stupidity."




   


 

[marmaim]

salamat sa +1 (sa totoo lang di ko pa rin alam para saan yun hehehe)
anyway, tatantanan ko na muna ang pagiging teknikal sa pagsasabi ng fact. pero fact pa rin ang hihiritan ko.
i dont agree with what you said na "fact" na people power ang dahilan ng pagalis ni marcos. at best, it would or could have been one of the reasons but i cannot say that it was ultimately so. wala naman talagang makakapagsabi ng tiyak at tunay na dahilan ng pagalis ni marcos. kahit pa maraming naniniwala na people power ang dahilan, hindi ibig sabihin po na yun nga ang rason nya. malay ba natin sa takbo ng utak nya at kung ano ano ang isinaalang alang nya para umalis. remember, nagka people power din to oust erap and gloria. yung against gloria didnt work and erap stayed.
why would marcos flee? he never resigned and when his family left, there was a feeling that their lives were in danger. why didnt he just do what erap did? di naman nya kailangang matakot kasi bloodless revolution ang people power di ba?
this is something i consider as fact: marcos didnt order the military to attack. even marcos' detractors couldnt claim otherwise. daming eroplano, helicopter, tangke, apv's noon. one shot or one bomb could have changed history but marcos didnt order the military to attack. why not? daming accusations of murders and dictatorship etc pero he just walked away. why?
anyway, my point is that there were other things happening na hindi natin alam at hindi rin natin masasabing hindi nangyari. baka US govt through the cia or whoever else influenced marcos. baka rin dahil alam nyang he was dying already. some even say na pinakawalan nya sina ramos at enrile -- to minimize the damage (to the govt/his interests/family) maybe?
at any rate, hinay hinay tayo sa pag claim ng facts o paggamit ng salitang fact.
personally nga pala, if i were dying or extremely unhealthy and people want to throw me out of the country? i wouldnt mind getting thrown into hawaii! im drooling just thinking about it! hehehe

[yummyyana23]

Sorry for interrupting sir Marmaim, pero ngayon lang po ito. Pramis!

Tama ang opinion ni Yummy in the sense na sa kanya lang pero pag dumating na sa puntong sasabihin sa akin ni Yummy na opinion nya ay tama, mali na yun.

No need to elaborate sir Dimmu, it's just plain bigotry on your part.

Pero mag iiba yun kung yung opinyon ni Yummy ay suportado ng ebidensya o sinasabi ng karamihan. Sa madaling salita napatunayan na yun talaga ang totoo.   

I always did supported it kaya nga binigay ko nga mga titles ng books na pinababasa ko sa iyo di ba? I didn't only supported it better yet, well-informed and substantiated sya. 

In case dito, wala namang ebidensya na nagsasabi na CIA nga ang dahilan ng pagalis ni Marcos, sabihin na nating may motibo pero di pa rin natin maiijustify na using our own conclusion na CIA nga ang dahilan, Unlike sa people power, which is a fact na yun ang dahilan ng pag alis ni marcos.


Ok bigyan pa po kita ng assignemt sir -
Read the following para maging productive naman ang summer mo, don't worry walang po tayong exam at graded recitation:

1.William Blum's book - The Rogue State.
2. Blum, William. Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II. Monroe, Maine: Common Courage Press,1995.
3. Hager, Nicky. Secret Power. New Zealand: Craig Porton Publishing, 1996.
4. McGehee, Ralph. Deadly Deceits: My 25 years in the CIA. New York: Sheridan Square Publications, 1983.
5. Reyes, Narciso G. Memories of Diplomacy:A Life in the Philippine Foreign Service. Pasig City: Anvil Publishing Inc.,1995.
6. Richelson, Jeffrey T. The US Intelligence Community. Boulder, Colorado: Westview Press, 1999.
7. Robinson, William I. Promoting Polyarchy: Globalization, US Intervention and Hegemony. Great Britain: Cambridge University Press, 1996.
8. Shalom, Stephen. The United States and the Philippines: A Study of Neo-colonialism. Quezon City: New Day Publishers, 1986.
9. Simbulan, Roland. The Bases of Our Insecurity: A Study of the US Military Bases in the Philippines. Quezon City: Balai Foundation, 1983.
10. Smith, Joseph Burkholder. Portrait of a Cold Warrior. Toronto: Longman Canada, Ltd., 1976.

These are well-researched writings, pag ito hindi pa rin pumasa sa standards mo, wow you really deserve to be in a pedestal. 

We cannot assume a certain thing using our imaginative mind and sabihin nating yun na ang totoo..

Even a fool won't know the difference of what's true or not . Abstraction po yan sir Dimmu lagi.

Can u get my point?

Do you even get your own point? That's should be the question your asking yourself.



Tama ka. Nagkakatalo lang naman dahil ipinipilit ni Yumi na paniwalaan ko ang opinion nya..


No and Never I will be doing that on someone else. Pambihira, sa hinaba haba ng debate at kakakontra mo, sa tingin mo maiimpluwensiyahan pa kita? Are you trying to be a funny here? I'm not forcing it on anyone else here. You're imaginative mind could have dictated you that it might be a fact for you to believe me. But your tongue speaks otherwise. I believe everyone here is competent enough to deliberate all issues, mostly posts here in this forums.

No need to reiterate your issues back, unless you're just trying to get my attention! you seeker. 

[Dimmu Borgir]

ung +1 ko sau ay dahil dun sa opinion mo tungkol sa akin na tingin ko ay observation mo pero di mo ipinipilit sa akin na yun ay ako..

at nagawa mo yun by using the word "opinion"

i dont agree with what you said na "fact" na people power ang dahilan ng pagalis ni marcos. at best, it would or could have been one of the reasons but i cannot say that it was ultimately so. wala naman talagang makakapagsabi ng tiyak at tunay na dahilan ng pagalis ni marcos. kahit pa maraming naniniwala na people power ang dahilan, hindi ibig sabihin po na yun nga ang rason nya.


Tama ka nang sabihin mo na di natin alam ang tunay na reason kung bakit umalis si Marcos. Di naman talaga natin alam kung may iba pang dahilan..

At sabi mo din isa sa posibleng dahilan  at alam ng karamihang tao na ay dahil sa people power kaya sila ay umalis...

Dahil sa ganitong mga sinabi mo eh nagiging FACTS ang people power na siyang "posibleng" dahilan dahil base dun sa paliwanag ng qoutes ko, dokumentado ito at sabi mo nga ito ang alam ng karamihang tao..

Yung mga sinasabi mong maaaring may ibang "posibleng dahilan", ito ay nagsisilbing opinyon lamang dahil di naman napatunayan ng ebidensya o nalalaman ng nakararami.. Di natin pinag uusapan ang kung anong ibang reasons nya sa pag alis niya..

anyway, my point is that there were other things happening na hindi natin alam at hindi rin natin masasabing hindi nangyari. baka US govt through the cia or whoever else influenced marcos. baka rin dahil alam nyang he was dying already. some even say na pinakawalan nya sina ramos at enrile -- to minimize the damage (to the govt/his interests/family) maybe?

yes tama ka in your own opinion but you cannot say it as a fact dahil sabi mo nga baka lang.......... Wala tayong pruweba para suportahan ang ganyang opinion.

Otherwise kung mapapatunayan natin yung ganyang claim, magiging facts na yan dahil may evidence tau...

wala naman talagang makakapagsabi ng tiyak at tunay na dahilan ng pagalis ni marcos.

Si yummy sir alam nya.. Kinokontra ko lang sya kaya di kami nagkakasundo...   

Mas maganda kung ganito ang kadebate mo, at least marunong magconsider ng mga reasons, kesa naman sayo yummy

@yummy, 

yung sa libro, wala akong pangbili.. type mo dito para mabasa ko...

[marmaim]

no need po for apologies mam yam. ako nga po sumisingit sa talakayan nyo ni dimmu eh.
please lang po mam yam! wag akong bigyan ng assignment!! hehehe
dimmu, hindi po talaga maaaring isaalang alang ang kaalaman, pang-unawa o pagtanggap ng nakararami sa isang pananaw o pangyayari sa pagtunton o pagtukoy ng katotohanan o katiyakan. parati po at walang humpay ang pagbabago sa pananaw at paniniwala ng mga tao sa pagdaan ng panahon. ang tama o katanggap tanggap at nalalaman ngayon ay maaaring malimot o mabalewala bukas. kapag po nangyari iyon, ang mga bagay na totoo at tiyak ay facts pa rin. ulit po with feelings: facts are not determined by the agreement or acceptance of the masses. not even a mob can sway the truth.
at isa ka pa dimmu, please lang! wag mo kong pag-type-in ng libro dito! hehehe

[yummyyana23]

no need po for apologies mam yam. ako nga po sumisingit sa talakayan nyo ni dimmu eh.
please lang po mam yam! wag akong bigyan ng assignment!! hehehe
dimmu, hindi po talaga maaaring isaalang alang ang kaalaman, pang-unawa o pagtanggap ng nakararami sa isang pananaw o pangyayari sa pagtunton o pagtukoy ng katotohanan o katiyakan. parati po at walang humpay ang pagbabago sa pananaw at paniniwala ng mga tao sa pagdaan ng panahon. ang tama o katanggap tanggap at nalalaman ngayon ay maaaring malimot o mabalewala bukas. kapag po nangyari iyon, ang mga bagay na totoo at tiyak ay facts pa rin. ulit po with feelings: facts are not determined by the agreement or acceptance of the masses. not even a mob can sway the truth.
at isa ka pa dimmu, please lang! wag mo kong pag-type-in ng libro dito! hehehe

actually the books are for sir dimmu  don't worry i know were you stand po.

[yummyyana23]

Si yummy sir alam nya.. Kinokontra ko lang sya kaya di kami nagkakasundo...   

Mas maganda kung ganito ang kadebate mo, at least marunong magconsider ng mga reasons, kesa naman sayo yummy

How would i consider an uninformed opinion? Sige bibilib ako kay sir dimmu kung magbibigay ka ng analysis mo, i-substantiate mo using literature about power dynamics ng US and Philippines.

Just continue reading. Kahit Renato Constantino na lang na mga articles ang basahin mo..galit din naman ito kay Makoy eh..

@yummy, 

yung sa libro, wala akong pangbili.. type mo dito para mabasa ko...
[/quote][/color]

Sheeesh, You have all the audacity to contradict all through out tapos isa nanamang lame alibi? Sir Dimmu nakakapag-internet ka, i'm pretty sure sa google may mga pdf files na nagkalat. Kung gusto may paraan, kung ayaw marami ang dahilan.

The links are already been given. Backread na lang po. I've done my part here.

[Dimmu Borgir]

How would i consider an uninformed opinion?
paulit ulit, di nga ako nagbibigay ng analysis ko.. Kelan mo ba ito maiintindihan?

Against ito dun sa quotation na ginagamit ko.. 

You have all the audacity to contradict all through out tapos isa nanamang lame alibi?

It is not an alibi, it's all about fairness since yung mga sinasabi ko sau eh pinaghihirapan kong ipaste dito para di ka na maghanap.. pinagresearch ba kita?

galit din naman ito kay Makoy eh

Galit ba ako kay marcos? NO... for the record, di ako pro or anti marcos or pro or anti aquino..

Ganyan ka na ba kagaling para malaman mo kung galit ako o hindi kay Marcos.. The problem is, pinag aaralan mo at inaanalisa mo ang isang bagay tapos pagdating mo sa dulo gagawa ka ng sarili mong conclusion na which is very flawed..

Kumuha lang ako ng dalawa sa sinabi mo..

If you have critically analyzed documentary programs leading to the EDSA Elite's uprising the Opposition led by Ninoy's widow would be the best alternative in promoting US interests

Have you ever wondered who really killed Ninoy? of course you're gonna point a finger again on the same and often-maligned president... 

Dumarating ka sa puntong pati sarili kong pag iisip ay nalalaman mo na.. Even, you didn't even know me personally. Nahusgahan mo na kaagad ako using your own analysis..

That is not the right thing. 

 
 

 

[Bolgas]

totoo kaya mga treasure ng mga japanese during marcos time.

[Dimmu Borgir]

Para sa akin, totoo yung Marcos Treasure. Kasi dito sa amin meron nakuha si Marcos na tons of gold..

Di kasi ito well documented kaya parang nagiging haka haka na lang.

Sabi nga ni yummy eh pure speculation lang ito..

totoo kaya mga treasure ng mga japanese during marcos time.

[yummyyana23]

Para sa akin, totoo yung Marcos Treasure. Kasi dito sa amin meron nakuha si Marcos na tons of gold..

Di kasi ito well documented kaya parang nagiging haka haka na lang.

Sabi nga ni yummy eh pure speculation lang ito..

Nice claim.."tapos hindi well documented"?

Tragis yan..paganda ng paganda sloping argument mo sir Dimmu.. 

kapanipaniwala! sana nilagyan mo ulit ng sources sa internet encyclopedia saka wikileaks..

oh by the way dito sa amin, nanggaling ang yung buddha statue ng mga hapones, ang pangalan "Golden" lol

enough of your bull sir dimmu.. you lost your credibility here.