Pippen calling Lebron as the Greatest Player to play Basketball

[Dimmu Borgir]

Jordan NEVER made Pippen to become  a legend. Pippen is talented in basketball but shadowed by Michael Jordan. 

When Michael Jordan retired before the 1993-94 season, and in his absence Pippen emerged from Jordan's shadow. That year, he earned All-Star Game MVP honors and led the Bulls in scoring, assists, and blocks, and was second in the NBA in steals per game, averaging 22.0 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 2.9 steals, and 0.8 blocks per game, while shooting 49.1% from the field and a career-best 32% from the 3-point line. For his efforts, he earned the first of three straight All-NBA First Team selections, and he finished third in MVPvoting. The Bulls finished the season with 55 wins, only two fewer than the year before.

2.   Jordan is a better defender and the only few guards with defense on par with bigger and stronger guys. LBJ is overrated because I seen guys like Manu, Lenard or even Diaw score against him and didn't assume responsibility to guard Parker. If he wants to prove himself like he did to Rose, he should have defended Parker personally instead, the buzzer beater that Parker did in game 1 was against LBJ's so-called defense. Coach Jackson can even attest that Jordan can shut down any player.

Hello. Jordan can play only two positions which is shooting guard and small forward. He lack the skills for point guard and don’t have strength to play either center or power forward.
 And maybe this is not your own analysis, because you don’t know how John Starks of New York Knicks slammed the ball over MJ  in Game 2 of the 1993 Eastern Conference Finals.

[VigilanteSpy]

Pippen is just sourgraping. All throughout his carreer nasa shadow siya ni
Michael Jordan.  Kung di niya naging team mate is MJ ewan ko lang kung maka-isang championship ring siya.  Buti pa si Rodman buo ang tiwala sa teammate niyang si Jordan.

[Dimmu Borgir]

Sourgraping?

I understood it when Karl Malone, didn't include MJ instead he includes LBJ on his team.. Because we know the history of the two..
 
But it's Scottie Pippen dude.. and not only Scottie, Alonzo Mourning agrees also to this idea..

Pippen is just sourgraping. All throughout his carreer nasa shadow siya ni
Michael Jordan.  Kung di niya naging team mate is MJ ewan ko lang kung maka-isang championship ring siya.  Buti pa si Rodman buo ang tiwala sa teammate niyang si Jordan.

[Vincent]

Alonzo Mourning?!!  of course dude he was a Miami Heat player..

[Dimmu Borgir]

hahahaha. napatawa mo ako bro.

but it doesn't make sense at all.

it's all media hype.

Alonzo Mourning?!!  of course dude he was a Miami Heat player..

[nevermind007]

very well said mate... catch your 2nd karma!

Thanks man! I never been a supporter of James since he joined the heat. I lost all my respect for him.

[nevermind007]

Jordan NEVER made Pippen to become  a legend. Pippen is talented in basketball but shadowed by Michael Jordan. 

When Michael Jordan retired before the 1993-94 season, and in his absence Pippen emerged from Jordan's shadow. That year, he earned All-Star Game MVP honors and led the Bulls in scoring, assists, and blocks, and was second in the NBA in steals per game, averaging 22.0 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 2.9 steals, and 0.8 blocks per game, while shooting 49.1% from the field and a career-best 32% from the 3-point line. For his efforts, he earned the first of three straight All-NBA First Team selections, and he finished third in MVPvoting. The Bulls finished the season with 55 wins, only two fewer than the year before.

2.   Jordan is a better defender and the only few guards with defense on par with bigger and stronger guys. LBJ is overrated because I seen guys like Manu, Lenard or even Diaw score against him and didn't assume responsibility to guard Parker. If he wants to prove himself like he did to Rose, he should have defended Parker personally instead, the buzzer beater that Parker did in game 1 was against LBJ's so-called defense. Coach Jackson can even attest that Jordan can shut down any player.

Hello. Jordan can play only two positions which is shooting guard and small forward. He lack the skills for point guard and don’t have strength to play either center or power forward.
 And maybe this is not your own analysis, because you don’t know how John Starks of New York Knicks slammed the ball over MJ  in Game 2 of the 1993 Eastern Conference Finals.

Well I respect your opinion. I seen Scottie risen from Jordan's shadow in the absence of the latter but did Jordan team up with Scottie when Scottie was all-star? Pippen came to the Bulls with these stats: 7.9 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.1 apg and saw his numbers increase in the following years. Now tell me exactly? If Jordan is not a good leader, will Pippen be an allstar? If Pippen was on his own the first place, will he be a legend that he is now? What if Pippen ended up with a bad and selfish teammate/team leader? This is actually the many what ifs in basketball but I think its obvious that since Pippen and Jordan were so good together, Jordan should receive a decent credit for Pippen being a legend that he is right now. Pippen had so much potential (when he was young) but why did he not end like Kwame Brown or Greg Oden who both have tons of potential but became busts? If you don't believe in the word grooming, well I do!

Yes LBJ can play point but he can't play two-guard as good and I seen the Starks dunk, no bias man but it's incomparable because, it was the perfect screen that brought Starks to the basket, with MJ too late to react since Starks was nearing the basket when MJ sensed him; MJ did not guard him personally too. Well, look at Diaw scoring on LBJ, LBJ was on him the whole time, there was no screen helping Diaw just one on one, he scored back-to-back buckets on LBJ, have you heard our filipino commentators even saying 'pinapahiya ni Diaw si LBJ in both ends of the floor'? If you saw the finals series there was this play where LBJ played Lenard personally, Lenard phased through his defense and shot the ball with LBJ reacting late to the shot. Great perimeter defenders don't and won't allow that to happen mate. Yes, LBJ can play any position but does not excell in any position except the point and the small forward. Still does not take away the fact that he still depends on co-superstars and MVP-tier players to finish the job. And mind you, please give me a rebuttal to how Varejao improve tremendously when LBJ left?  If you went here to tell me that Jordan did not make Pippen, can you please explain why Varejao has not played that good under LBJ's leadership? Its a great leader's job to bring the best out of his teammates right? I admit these are not entirely my analysis but I saw how Jordan played and I also checked his stats especially on defense.

[dh@n]

Even if LBJ will reach/surpass Jordan's achievements this what I always say to heat fans:
1. Jordan never played with rivals or left his team to find a championship elsewhere!
2. Jordan has never player with a team as deep as the Miami Heat. Even when he has played with 2 legends named Pippen, Rodman; Jordan has never played with players who are stars with other teams like LBJ had, and has never played with deeper bench players like Miami had (Ray Allen, Mike Miller, Shane Battier, Rashad Lewis, Chris Anderson). People say Jordan has Kerr, Kukoc, Grant but all of them are less achieved than guys like Mike Miller, Shane Battier; all-star players like Rashad Lewis and most especially Ray Allen.
3. Jordan is a better leader, always was and always been. It can be argued that he 'made' Pippen to a legend as evident when you see Pippen's mediocre career start to an all-around player and nailing the coffin to the legacy of Rodman. Under LBJ, Wade and Bosh slowly declined (because of recurring injuries), slowly their production declined and another example is Anderson Varejao's stellar improvement which came after LBJ left. If LBJ is a better player then he should be a better leader as well, he should make his teammates better not only making himself better and he should win a championship by just with 1 star not with 3 stars.
4. Jordan's level of competition is better than LBJ and the rules where a lot different in Jordan's time when defense was more physical and intense. Hand checking was allowed during Jordan's time and he had to go through the 'Bad Boys' without suffering career ending injuries despite being triple/quadruple teamed. LBJ and his 'super team' was brought to the limit by a young and inexperienced Pacers team (without Danny Granger) and an old San Antonio Spurs team with a less talented yet more experienced big 3 and with role players not even half as good as Miami. Finally, they were even bullied by a very underrated team in Dallas.
5. LBJ may have more rings in age 28 but started the NBA early which is an advantage because he was exposed to the basketball world's most premiere league. If people say Jordan's college experience is an advantage, NBA basketball >>>> NCAA IMO
6. LBJ compensates his lack of skill with his big body. He has a horrible jump shot and is dependent to his drive/layups/dunks. Jordan can score from anywhere down the stretch at a higher rate than LBJ (minus the 3pt line). People also say he has better assist ratio and a better distributor than MJ but failed to realize that assists still depends on the surrounding players - LBJ is surrounded mostly by sharp shooters but Jordan did reach 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg in a season which shows his more all around prowess. He also doesn't force himself to be a stat chaser.
7. Jordan never lost a championship series, he never experienced a game 7 even once, even against more LEGIT teams. Jordan never disappeared even one finals game while James shot poorly during the finals series; scored less than 20 ppg in the first 3 games of the finals and seemed to be silent and non-existent in most of the games where the Spurs won. James also choked against a Dallas team who is never known for their defense.
8. Jordan is a better defender and the only few guards with defense on par with bigger and stronger guys. LBJ is overrated because I seen guys like Manu, Lenard or even Diaw score against him and didn't assume responsibility to guard Parker. If he wants to prove himself like he did to Rose, he should have defended Parker personally instead, the buzzer beater that Parker did in game 1 was against LBJ's so-called defense. Coach Jackson can even attest that Jordan can shut down any player.

Basically LBJ teamed up with co-superstars, mentioning him with MJ's level is disrespect, IMO. If he finishes his career with the big 3, he should never be at the same conversation with MJ, Kobe, Magic and Bill Russell because he made the easiest way out to be a champ!

un ang tama...100% agree aq sau nevermind007 isang malupet n karma para sau sir

[Dimmu Borgir]

Good analysis..

But honestly, im not here to defend LBJ, im here to re-butt your analysis..

Michael Jordan made his teammates better, right? Then why did Pippen, Grant, and B.J. Armstrong have their best seasons when Jordan was out for basically two straight seasons. Those being the 93-94 season where he played no games, and the 94-95 season where he only played 17. In the 1994 season where Jordan didn't play, Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong made their one and only appearances to the all-star game.

 
There, it's out.  He was a very good defender?  I don't have any problems with his 1988 defensive player of the year award and his 6 first-team all defense awards up that point.

However, after that, he was a very overrated defender.  He got old and lost a step and it showed.  It happens to everybody, but Jordan's fans couldn't accept it.  Let me give examples.

In 1995 and 96, Clyde Drexler and Anfernee Hardaway continued giving Jordan problems when they posted up on him.  That is understandable as they were bigger than Jordan.  However, Jordan's lost a step on his quickness and in 1996, Pooh Richardson lit up Jordan...Pooh Richardson.  Damon Stoudamire had his way with Jordan that year (Stoudamire's rookie season).  While Stoudamire was very quick, Phil Jackson's answer to him spoke volumes about Jordan: Phil put Scottie Pippen on Stoudamire.   Jordan was so slow that a 6'7" 225 lb FORWARD was Jackson's answer to a guard.  Phil began opting to put Ron Harper on the other team's better offensive guard.  Jordan fanatics claim this was "resting" Jordan for offense.  No, this is called "rationalizing."  Young Jordan guarded the other team's best guard AND lit up his opponents for 32+ PPG.

LBJ can play the 5 positions but cannot excelled in all positions. he is natural SF and i think no one player can excelled in all 5 positions. MAgic Johnson can played all 5 but he excelled only on PG. Compare to jordan, who play only 2 position and excel only on SG.

Grooming and you are talking to Greg Oden? Oh man, mas mahaba ang panahon na injury sya. And Kwame, anyway he is drafted by Jordan. Then are u taking MJ, doesn't know how to groom a player? A GOAT as claim by so many, doesn't know how to assess talent..

[nevermind007]

Good analysis..

But honestly, im not here to defend LBJ, im here to re-butt your analysis..

Michael Jordan made his teammates better, right? Then why did Pippen, Grant, and B.J. Armstrong have their best seasons when Jordan was out for basically two straight seasons. Those being the 93-94 season where he played no games, and the 94-95 season where he only played 17. In the 1994 season where Jordan didn't play, Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong made their one and only appearances to the all-star game.

 

Thanks for the good information. Well Jordan is a GOAT yes as a player and a team leader (Phil Jackson attested to this - http://nba.si.com/2013/05/17/phil-jackson-michael-jordan-was-better-leader-shooter-and-defender-than-kobe-bryant/    "One of the biggest differences between the two stars from my perspective was Michael's superior skills as a leader," Jackson said. "Though at times he could be hard on his teammates, Michael was masterful at controlling the emotional climate of the team with the power of his presence."). He's not a GOAT as a team owner and a manager, admittedly as a die hard MJ fan I can say he sucks as an owner and manager. Good point on BJ Armstrong and Horace Grant. Looking at Horace Grant's stats, his 1991-1992 stats is close to his 1993-1994 so he already played his best before that and he did play a few more minutes in his season without MJ; its not like what happened to Varejao who improved 'dramatically' in every statistic. On Armstrong, he did play as good when Jordan returned, actually he played better, just playing few minutes. If you base on stats per 36 minutes, Armstrong actually did better in the next two seasons upon the return of Jordan. Anyway, what Grant, Armstrong and Pippen achieved in Jordan's absence is actually a byproduct of how Jordan lead them to be, perennial allstars. Varejao's case is actually different, during his time with LBJ, his improvement was noticibly slow and seemed like nothing. It was only after the year that James left had brought Varejao to the next level. Grant started with Bulls at 7.7ppg then the next year he averaged 12.0ppg, BJ Armstrong also improved starting at 1992 when Jordan was still around. There is a difference between improving while around or not.

There, it's out.  He was a very good defender?  I don't have any problems with his 1988 defensive player of the year award and his 6 first-team all defense awards up that point.

However, after that, he was a very overrated defender.  He got old and lost a step and it showed.  It happens to everybody, but Jordan's fans couldn't accept it.  Let me give examples.

In 1995 and 96, Clyde Drexler and Anfernee Hardaway continued giving Jordan problems when they posted up on him.  That is understandable as they were bigger than Jordan.  However, Jordan's lost a step on his quickness and in 1996, Pooh Richardson lit up Jordan...Pooh Richardson.  Damon Stoudamire had his way with Jordan that year (Stoudamire's rookie season).  While Stoudamire was very quick, Phil Jackson's answer to him spoke volumes about Jordan: Phil put Scottie Pippen on Stoudamire.   Jordan was so slow that a 6'7" 225 lb FORWARD was Jackson's answer to a guard.  Phil began opting to put Ron Harper on the other team's better offensive guard.  Jordan fanatics claim this was "resting" Jordan for offense.  No, this is called "rationalizing."  Young Jordan guarded the other team's best guard AND lit up his opponents for 32+ PPG.

It seems you got that from another source, here's a rebuttal from the same source via Yahoo from a guy who followed the 1990s era: 'Getting crossed over by skillful players will happen, it doesn't necessarily mean someone is a poor defender. Richardson, Stoudamire, and Iverson were all players with skill, granted they weren't on Jordan's level, but they had it.... Ron Harper was not a better defender then Jordan at any point in his career. Harper who suffered a knee injury in the mid-90s became slow, and had to reinvent himself as a shooter, more then his original game as a slasher.I don't ever recall seeing Ron Harper taking a game winning shot, nor Phil playing Harper against the other teams top guard. That was always Jordan's job. Maybe you saw Harper defending the SG because Jordan was defending John Stockton and Gary Payton - in the last 3 finals. I don't recall BJ Armstrong or John Paxson guarding Clyde Drexler in the second Finals series either.'

It seems your source is a MJ hater. I have a reliable source TS which speaks volumes to MJ's defense: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2026&dat=19920609&id=iM0qAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wdAFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4549,1197663 - ''''Clyde Drexler has noticed Jordan's defensive excellence. It would have been hard for him not to have noticed;
Jordan is often so close to Drexler that the pair seem to be glued together. Drexler, who finished second to Jordan in league MVP voting, is shooting 43 percent and has committed nine turnovers in the series. "Michael's a pretty good defensive player," Drexler said Monday. Pretty good? "He's very good," Drexler said. "He's quick
and active. He can gamble and he still has the speed to get back into the play." Jerome Kersey has noticed, too. Because the Bulls do a lot of switching on defense, Jordan, 6-foot-6 and 198 pounds, often finds himself guarding the 6-7, 225-pound Kersey. "Jordan's a hands-on defensive player," Kersey said. "He gets his hands and body into you and pushes you harder than you thought he could. He's always overplaying you, always looking for the steal." Skip tayo ng konti. "You've always got to keep an eye out for Michael," said Portland point guard Terry Porter, who
also has been stopped by Jordan in the series.''''

Imagine doing all of that while scoring and he was even injured during that series, LBJ can't even put up that numbers on offense and didn't compensate for defense. What's his excuse for that?

LBJ can play the 5 positions but cannot excelled in all positions. he is natural SF and i think no one player can excelled in all 5 positions. MAgic Johnson can played all 5 but he excelled only on PG. Compare to jordan, who play only 2 position and excel only on SG.

Grooming and you are talking to Greg Oden? Oh man, mas mahaba ang panahon na injury sya. And Kwame, anyway he is drafted by Jordan. Then are u taking MJ, doesn't know how to groom a player? A GOAT as claim by so many, doesn't know how to assess talent..

Well still Oden's case is more on grooming, kung baga pag-alaga. As stated earlier, admittedly Jordan sucks as a GM and as a manager but does not correlate to Jordan being a player and team-captain. What happened to Oden, Brown and other busts can happen to Scottie Pippen or any player not groomed right. Jordan's job as a GM is to hire players and pay for trainers. That's why he's an owner right? His job to groom is not his anymore although Kwame Brown is always MJ biggest mistake. Jordan can play SF as good, as it was his primary position in his return to Wizards, still making 20+ ppg average despite his age (38,39 respectively). At least MJ has taken considerable time in both positions. LBJ's ability to play 5 positions is impressive but still does not change the fact that he is the most dependent multiple MVP winner. I rather go for an LBJ who plays only 1 position but not need to get a Dwyane Wade or a Chris Bosh just to get a title.

I guess you're not sold on MJ as the GOAT, that's okay TS because I'm not some biased Jordan fan who would force you to believe that MJ is the absolute GOAT but LeBron James? Please?? There is never a MVP/Champ as dependent as LeBron James yet alone a GOAT. Everyone can't win alone that's true but LeBron James' case is over-dependence and it makes me sick putting him with the same league as MJ!

[Dimmu Borgir]

Sir i have a topic posted titled "Who do you think is the best ever person who played basketball?"

For me, Lebron is far away from Jordan..

That's the truth.. But Jordan as a GOAT, ur just kidding pal..

This comparison you posted is for KB and MJ only, of course it will favor MJ, it seems pal your talking individual (KB) player and team player (MJ).. And basketball is a team's game..

Oh come on, even Jordan is not on the bench, you still credit him for player's improvement. I will not agree much on this. Anyway, it's your opinion..

Lets skip to Kwame Brown, as a owner, IMO, you want ur team to excelled and in order to do that, you are looking for the right piece and better player if not the best. Picking a number one pick is a rare opportunity for   a team. So do you think Jordan is not committed in improving Kwame Brown? Are u saying na wala ng pakialam si Jordan kung inaaskiaso yung top pick nya dahil di naman nya trabaho yun? It's no brainer, i think.

And i don't think it's about grooming, i think it's more on assessing talent. Kadalasan ang mga top pick ang pinag uukulan ng pansin ng mga yan pero bakit sina Ginobili or Ben Wallance. Considering late draft pick si Manu tapos undrafted si Wallace.   

Consider this also, Pippen is no doubt second best small forward of all time (2nd only to Larry Bird) Rodman, best rebounder during his prime, Kerr, 3 point specialist, Kukoc.. they have deep bench. Jordan cannot do it alone and i think this team is better than LBJ's team of Miami and i think Phil Jackson is a better coach that Spoelstra..

Look at the supporting back up of Miami.. Wade and Bosh are inconsistent.. Allen is old. And who else? Anderssen, are u kidding?
 
   







 

[totoym]

Grabe naman yung diskusyon dito.

Miami fan ako. Dwade-Shaq particularly. Then James and bosh came along.nyah.I hate LBJ during cleveland. hindi dahil sa mayabang pero dahil alam ko dominant siya nung time na yun. Siguro may mag rerebutt pero he did bring the cavs to nba finals. He chose to join the heat. Dahil dito siguro marami nagalit sa kanya. Pero di mo siya masisisi. A player with that talent, gusto lang niya manalo ng championship.

yung bulls naman ni jordan, puno ng talent, rodman was a dominant rebounder bago pa siya sumali sa bulls. and the bench were talented as well. Pippen no doubt na magaling. Jordan didnt win rings until pippen came. Coach Phil jackson? no doubt about him. phil jackson would probably choose MJ over LBJ. He coached the bulls to greatness.

yung comments naman ni rodman about LBJ na magiging just a regular player lang kung sa era ni MJ, inaccurate. Hindi naman kasi kasing pisikal dati ang NBA ngayon. though kung oobserve nyo madalas pinipisikal si lebron. sa tingin ko kung pisikal ang laro, with LBJ's built and athleticism mag aadjust sya to that game. so hindi natin mapapagmeet yung dalawang era.

Leadership wise, its jordan. Greatness career wise, still jordan.  killer instinct, jordan. GOAT jordan pa din naman. But still, nag eevolve pa rin si LBJ.nakikita natin yun. Yun lang ginwardyahan nya from pos 1-5 last year. at kinaya niya.hats off.He has more talent, built, and youth at his disposal.(Siguro naman wala nang kokontra dito.hehe)

we cant use "if only" and "kase naman" statements sa dalawang ito. They both deserve to be up there.

Naniniwala din ako at alam kong madami ang hindi naniniwala na biased karamihan kay MJ kasi lahat halos tayo nabuhay nung era nya and we cant let the idea na may possibility matalo yun generasyon natin. LBJ is the next generation i believe pero at this point MJ pa din. pero kahit hndi nya mapantayan rings ni MJ, mag evolve lang siya to something greater. Dadating yung time na mas maaalala si Lebron. Provided na hindi sya hated ng media and someone continously brings hype to jordans career. Which in case, jordan will forever be the greatest.

[SickSativa]

para sa akin si lebron. bakit? efficiency at play style. lebron keeps everybody involved even though he is scoring in bunches. at grabe ang impact nya sa defense.

walang personalan, opinyon lang.

[silverado]

different greatest players on different era, period

[blackboxrecorder]

I dont think so