Rodman comparing his era to current era

[Ozymandias]

there are few players who are better from jordan or lebron in terms of talent, skills, accomplishment and competitiveness but not in the same spotlight.
 
if there is no media, i dont think Jordan will be the greatest ever...

yea Jordan doesn't need the Media to be considered as the greatest ever, you just need to watch him with his offensive and defensive skills, read/research his Achievements, wikipedia and basketball reference is free bruh. Considering that he played during the mid 80s til the late 90s. Era where you can contest slashers and shooters without worrying too much about getting fouls. More physical resistance against your defender,

Also name player/s that are better than Jordan and Lebron, statistically and skill wise. I'm curious.

[Dimmu Borgir]

aha..

just watch and you already know that he is the greatest player? are u really serious?

offensive? defensive? do u know what are you talking?

how about achievements? did you know who is the most  accomplished nba player in nba history?

so poor that you just only watch MJ played basketball and read his achievement and you keep on acting like u know the NBA. There are a lot of players in NBA, look at their profile first before u say anything....

yea Jordan doesn't need the Media to be considered as the greatest ever, you just need to watch him with his offensive and defensive skills, read/research his Achievements, wikipedia and basketball reference is free bruh. Considering that he played during the mid 80s til the late 90s. Era where you can contest slashers and shooters without worrying too much about getting fouls. More physical resistance against your defender,

Also name player/s that are better than Jordan and Lebron, statistically and skill wise. I'm curious.

[Ozymandias]

aha..

just watch and you already know that he is the greatest player? are u really serious?

offensive? defensive? do u know what are you talking?

how about achievements? did you know who is the most  accomplished nba player in nba history?

so poor that you just only watch MJ played basketball and read his achievement and you keep on acting like u know the NBA. There are a lot of players in NBA, look at their profile first before u say anything....

I didn't even say he's the Greatest, I said he's always considered as G.O.A.T., he's always in that category...

Awwww poor me B.T.W. enlighten us Dimmu Borgir the NBA Guru! 

I asked you to name players to make this an interesting conversation, so far you've been trying to become "NBA Guru knows it all and I'll shove it your face (so far none) you poor bastard" type of arrogant douche guy on the internet and it's really funny HAHAHAHAHAHAHA internet people is really entertaining

Yeah I'm being serious and I don't call Hall of Fame/MVP/Champs as a trash players, Dimmu Borgir NBA Guru       

LBJ fan, what the heck are u talking?

LBJ and Jordan is just a trash for me, they are just over rated players.. They are just a product of media hype..

[Dimmu Borgir]

How ironic that i become an NBA guru in ur eyes..

I'm not of course. Im just a curious person that look from all the "nba greats" before commenting here..

You know Bill Russell dude? It's time to make a little research about him..

And after that, sabihin mo sa akin kung paanong naging mas magaling kesa sa kanya si Jordan..

And after that i will tell you one person "who" really dominates basketball game..
 

[Ozymandias]

How ironic that i become an NBA guru in ur eyes..

I'm not of course. Im just a curious person that look from all the "nba greats" before commenting here..

You know Bill Russell dude? It's time to make a little research about him..

And after that, sabihin mo sa akin kung paanong naging mas magaling kesa sa kanya si Jordan..

And after that i will tell you one person "who" really dominates basketball game..
 

Ever heard of Sarcasm? LOL 

Yea Bill Russell, Center who had a career FG 0.440% way too low for a center, scoring 15.1 ppg (just okay), 2nd All-Time Leader in Total Rebounds - pretty impressive. People always bring up his defensive impact as a reason why he's so great. (So is Mutombo, Ben Wallace, and others)

BUT...

11 rings and that's pretty much the sole reason. Russell’s teams also were stacked with future Hall of Famers and All-Stars, including John Havlicek, Bob Cousy, Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, KC Jones, and Bill Sharman. The Celtics teams had far superior talent overall than any other team during his era. All in their prime and of course he'll win a ton of championships. + Russell played in an era where there were fewer NBA teams—about 10 (cool). In addition to having fewer teams, there were fewer playoff rounds (Lesser wear and tear). The level of talent does not compare to that of today’s game.[/b] Compared in Jordan or Lebron's Era where there are 30 teams, 82 games, with stronger, faster, and more athletic players. There were better defenders, rebounders to compete with.

Dominance with only 10 teams around, with smaller players (centers around 6'8-6'10  and If i'm right Wilt is the tallest and strongest center in that era) Then he always get surrounded by HOF & All-stars. If that's your definition of dominance... 

There goes my research bruh. So talk about overrated.

[Dimmu Borgir]

parekoy ilang taon ka na ba?

di ganyan ang pagreresearch. nakakita ka lang ata ng isang article, balik ka na dito at nagpost ka na..

sige ganito na lang.. paliwanag ko sayo ng konti, team impact ang tawag dito..

a. ano bang status ng boston bago dumating at umalis si Russell tapos ikumpara mo sa status ng Bulls bago dumating at umalis si Jordan.. tapos sabihin mo sa akin kung sinong mas may impact sa kanila..

b. dun naman sa sinasabi mong 10 teams eh kung iintindihin mo lang mas mahirap yun kasi concentrated ang magagaling sa isang team. Hal. yung last pick ngaun ng isang team sa first round eh pang 3rd round pick na nun.. saka ang situation nun mas mahirap kesa ngayun, sweldo, travel, accomodation, etc. 

3. If u are talking about dominance, It's Chamberlain,

Russell is not dominant like Wilt as shown in his career average in points..




 
 

[josemanueldelacruz]

I believe that jordan's era is different from lebron, but we could not help to compare those two. Jordan is different from lebron, both have their own strengths and weaknesses. Pero kung sino mas better? I believe jordan pa rin. sorry lebron... pero si jordan ay pedestal na ng basketball and no one could replace his airness!

[Ozymandias]

parekoy ilang taon ka na ba?

di ganyan ang pagreresearch. nakakita ka lang ata ng isang article, balik ka na dito at nagpost ka na..

sige ganito na lang.. paliwanag ko sayo ng konti, team impact ang tawag dito..

a. ano bang status ng boston bago dumating at umalis si Russell tapos ikumpara mo sa status ng Bulls bago dumating at umalis si Jordan.. tapos sabihin mo sa akin kung sinong mas may impact sa kanila..

b. dun naman sa sinasabi mong 10 teams eh kung iintindihin mo lang mas mahirap yun kasi concentrated ang magagaling sa isang team. Hal. yung last pick ngaun ng isang team sa first round eh pang 3rd round pick na nun.. saka ang situation nun mas mahirap kesa ngayun, sweldo, travel, accomodation, etc. 

3. If u are talking about dominance, It's Chamberlain,

Russell is not dominant like Wilt as shown in his career average in points..

No you don't get the point here Lolo or Manong Metal. Also I really don't understand why people like you makes a lot of significance about age in this conversation? What are you born in the 40s or 50s (i'm exaggerating here in case you're lost) so if I'm younger than you does it makes you better, smarter, or rather just to make yourself feel better? 

There I was expecting that you'll bring up Wilt Chamberlain, the centennial man! The man who only scored too much that he only had 2 championships (1 with Lakers, & 1 with Sixers). Here we go, most centers are only 6'8-6'9 (skinny centers) so that made Wilt (7'1) dominate against team with lesser talents, only Bill Russell is the only exception who can at least match up with him (Great defender in his era). How about we put Ben Wallace, or Rodman, Olajuwon or Dwight against him?

Since Wilt is the tallest and probably the most athletic guy in that era, obviously he'll dominate easily. Imagine Hakeem Olajuwon or Karl Malone playing against Shaun Livingston or Corey Brewer as his defender? (get the picture here lolo?)

He's not the only player who put up crazy numbers,
*1961 season only*
PPG
1.   Wilt Chamberlain*-PHW   38.4
2.   Elgin Baylor*-LAL      34.8
3.   Oscar Robertson*-CIN   30.5

*Note with only 8 teams in that season - which also means lesser games, lesser fatigue, and lesser wear and tear (Lesser chance for major injuries if you still don't get me). Coaches will expect their star players to perform more, put up crazy numbers, and play their stars for like 45-48 minutes a game for them. More Talent by teams ba kamo? It's dub as the 2nd weakest Era (50's are the weakest daw) in terms of talent.

Also during that era most teams didn't play much defense it's more on run, pass a little, shoot, rebound, run, pass a little, shoot, repeat (I've watched some games sa youtube).. their objective is just to outscore their opponents, trade baskets no stops. Compared in the Era where Magic, Bird & Jordan played where scoring won't be as easy as that. Also the reason why Rodman is bitching on Lebron about his era.
That's why most people always bring up Jordan because he has proven that he can dominate offensively (11 time Scoring Leader) despite the choking defense, and he even became Defensive Player of the Year, 3-Time leaders in steal just to shove it up in your face that he's not just a player who can only score. 82 games per season na sa era nila!
 
Do you catch my drift here lolo? :-)

You should get used in seeing (in respect of your older age Dimmu Borgir) Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Larry Bird Hakeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan etc...  in the Category of G.O.A.T. Sure Bill Russell and Wilt gets the respect in that category but they played in a different era (lesser talent era, lesser team)

[Dimmu Borgir]

Actually di naman related sa topic natin yung pagtanong ko ng idad mo, para ka kasing nasa elementary level kung magresearch kaya akala ko tuloy bata ang kausap ko. evaluate and dig deeper yun sana ang gusto kong maintindhan mo.

ang haba ng sinagot mo pero naintindihan mo ba ang team impact na sinasabi ko?

sabihin na nating totoo ang mga sinabi mo pero isa lang ang itatanong ko, anong lagay ng Boston, bago at umalis si Russel? HOF ba kamo, saan nadala ng HOF na yan ang Boston ng wala si Russell?

At anong lagay ng Boston habang nasa roster nila si Russell?

compared 72 games of 1960 and 82 games of 1990's,

parang ganito lang yan, dito sa amin nung 1960's, kalabaw ang sinasakyan namin pero ngayon naka motor na kami.. what im saying 10 games lang ang gap nung laro pero pagdating sa gamit, accomodation, pag travel, sahod,  conditioning, etc. sobrang layo nang 1960 sa 1990's.. mataas siyempre ang 82 sa 72, pero kung gagamitan mo ng konting sense, mas mahirap maglaro sa panahong yun. 

Wilt as a GOAT, your kidding again..

 
 

[Ozymandias]

Actually di naman related sa topic natin yung pagtanong ko ng idad mo, para ka kasing nasa elementary level kung magresearch kaya akala ko tuloy bata ang kausap ko. evaluate and dig deeper yun sana ang gusto kong maintindhan mo.

ang haba ng sinagot mo pero naintindihan mo ba ang team impact na sinasabi ko?

sabihin na nating totoo ang mga sinabi mo pero isa lang ang itatanong ko, anong lagay ng Boston, bago at umalis si Russel? HOF ba kamo, saan nadala ng HOF na yan ang Boston ng wala si Russell?

At anong lagay ng Boston habang nasa roster nila si Russell?

compared 72 games of 1960 and 82 games of 1990's,

parang ganito lang yan, dito sa amin nung 1960's, kalabaw ang sinasakyan namin pero ngayon naka motor na kami.. what im saying 10 games lang ang gap nung laro pero pagdating sa gamit, accomodation, pag travel, sahod,  conditioning, etc. sobrang layo nang 1960 sa 1990's.. mataas siyempre ang 82 sa 72, pero kung gagamitan mo ng konting sense, mas mahirap maglaro sa panahong yun. 

Wilt as a GOAT, your kidding again..

Kidding? Really? Kaya nga naka Italicized e kasi tinamad ako nun, and what are we thesis defense at kailangan iquote pa ang sources? Forum to Copy Paste okay na just to make a point, puro articles nga dito Copy Paste e!

there are few players who are better from jordan or lebron in terms of talent, skills, accomplishment and competitiveness but not in the same spotlight.
 
if there is no media, i dont think Jordan will be the greatest ever...

Aren't we talking about GOAT here in the first place?  You were the one to open that topic Manong.

Yea totally agree about Bill Russell's defensive impact and his great passing. As what most article will tell you, he's advance in terms of defensive skills. So yea impact with a best defender in those era against teams with lesser talent (we're talking about agility, high leapers, limited low post moves etc..). Less competition kung baga. So are you done here? I hope you get the point here.... Let's put it this way, if we put Rodman during Russell's era, atleast I can picture that he would made the same impact as Bill Russell.

Sobrang hirap ng travel? Manong they're already using airplanes to travel, compared sa era ngayon, they have to go to 30 different states, sa kanila 8 different states lang alam mo ba kung gaano kalayo yun at gaano yung impact ng fatigue sa travelling ngayon vs noon? Salary? Average salary is $12,000, economy was different during that era, at naabutan ni Russel at Wilt yung 6 figure na salary. Kung baga yung Piso sa Panahon ng Pilipinas noong 60s ay malaking bagay na. Gets mo diba? Conditioning? Olympics started 1896, athletes won't have a problem with that kasi may trainer na pala noon? Akalain mo yun. If you're talking about facilities for conditioning, yea limited pero syempre na address na nila yung problem about injuries. If conditioning was a problem dapat palagi injured si Bill Russell diba?

Anything else? Medyo off yung punto mo e pero since palayo na tayo ng palayo sa topic mo nakakatamad ka na kausap, hahaha jk lang Manong 

Ikaw na nagsabi na few players are better from jordan or lebron in terms of talents, skills, accomplishments and competitiveness diba? Di mo na latag ng maayos yung argument mo na mas magaling si Bill Russell or Wilt chamberlain sa kanila. Puro ka impact at dominate lang wala rin bang Impact sila Jordan, Magic (best years of NBA), Lebron (Flop Era..JK) and others? Kanya kanyang impact yan, before dumating si Jordan sa Bulls di ganun ka sikat at di playoff contender, nung nag retire sya(twice pa) wala diba? Same as Lebron's Cavs, and Magic's Lakers. Pero syempre mas lamang sila Jordan, Magic and Lebron in terms of better opponents, rivals and competition (kaya mas applicable sa kanila yung competitiveness, talent etc...)

Kung may ilatag ka pa na other details that about the topic, I would love to reply! Been a pleasure b.t.w.! Tuwing madaling araw inaabangan ko reply mo!  Hahahahahhahahaha 

[Dimmu Borgir]

anong kailangang i qoute pa ang sources? wala naman akong sinabing ganun..

actually sir, ikaw ang nagbibring up ng iba't ibang topic, sinasagot ko lang yung iba..
yun ngang kay wilt di ko na sinagot kasi mapapalayo tayo..

isang factor ang impact sa pag aanalyze kung gaano kagaling ang isang player. Ikaw ang nag open na kaya nanalo si Bill Russell eh dahil sa mga HoF na kakampi nya, sinagot lang kita.

Di mo ba naresearch na karamihan sa mga players nung mga 1960 eh kailangang mag part time job during off season dahil kulang ang sahod nila sa NBA?

Di mo ba rin naresearch na si Russell eh naging player coach? Meaning, naglalaro habang nagcocoach. Eh ngayun, may coach, may assistant coach pa, my athletic trainer pa at kung anu ano pa.

Di mo ba rin alam ang klase ng accomodation nun pag ang laro nila eh sa ibang lugar kumpara ngayon?

Di mo rin ba naintindihan na ang mga teams nun, 8 to 10 teams, eh naghaharap ng 8 beses sa isang season, kumpara ngayon na 2 lang. At dahil nga konting team, mas concentrated ang players na magagaling kaya mas maganda ang competition. Compare the number of 60-win teams in each era. In today's 30-team league, there are many more mediocre clubs than in the 1960's. At sa sinabi mong weakest and 1960's, pinatawa mo lang ako dun..

Di mo alam na ang mga players nung 1960's  had three years of college ball and instruction. Most of today's players, by comparison, are very under-developed kasi from high school pwede na silang diretso NBA..

Magreserch ka about conditioning sa NBA, kumpara mo nung 1960 sa ngayon para maliwanagan ka.

Pero di naman nakapagtataka dahil mostly ng younger generations sa ngayon eh wala naman talgang alam basta lang maka Jordan.. Ikaw nga ngayon o lang yata nalaman na may Bill Russell na naglaro sa NBA..

[Ungas123]

Dami talaga butthurt fanboys. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[Ozymandias]

Okay Manong Dimmu! I realized a lot of things, got time to really watch some videos about Bill Russell, and he won with Defense. In terms of impact for a team, he tops it all. Agreed!

But there are still a lot of facts that allowed him to do that:
fewer nba teams means fewer times to adjust against your opponent kasi kabasido mo na sila, lesser fatigue etc. (u dont have to fly to 30 different state), fewer playoff games for a quicker road to championship. Konti lang athletic and really talented sa era nila (easier for him to defend and rebound) Medyo imbalance ng konti kasi stacked ng future HOF ang boston palagi. Whether you agree or not, palagi nandyan yan.
About him being a player-coach, it is common sa era nila. After winning 9 championship with Red Auerbach then nagretire, alam na alam na ni Bill Russell yung systema ng team since he has high Basketball IQ. If he started his career as a player coach or started it early, that would be another story. Perhaps kung allowed pa rin sa era yan nila Magic Johnson or til now, malamang Player coach rin si Magic or si Kidd.

I based most of my replies sa mga players ng 80s-90s toughest NBA Era for me, where most players have to take a lot of beating from cheap shots and physical plays kaya greater yung respect ko kanila Magic, Bird, Jordan, Robinson, Hakeem, Wilkins etc.... I'm biased sa era na yan. At syempre gaya ng sabi mo Media Hype si Jordan, despite that advantage he's proven himself in all sort of categories (impact, stats, etc). If Utah Jazz or Phoenix Suns won championships instead na Bulls, most likely Karl Malone and/or Barkley will get the Media's attention. Not Jordan, not Pippen, not Phil Jackson.

[Dimmu Borgir]

Kung kabisado na nila bakit laging Boston nananalo ng Championship? Bakit naka dalawa lang si Wilt samantalang sya nga yung dominating player nung Era na yan? Naiisip mo ba yan?

Sasabihin mo dahil sa HOF pero sabi ko nga di naman nila nadala sa Championship ang Boston nung wala si Russell.. Buti pa dyan si Pippen, nadala ang Bulls kahit wala na si Jordan..

Lesser fatigue? Halos 48 minutes kung maglaro ang mga katulad ni Russell kumpara sa mga franchise players ngayon. Tapos run and gun pa ang style nun.. Di ko malaman kung bakit di mo naiisip ang mga ito..

Di mo rin nakuha ang punto ko ng sabihin kung player coach si Russell di katulad nina Jordan.. Kahit pa karaniwan na yun nun, mahirap pa ring trabaho yun kumpara sa ikaw ay player lang.

Para sa kaalaman mo pa rin, habang tumatagal ang NBA, lumalambot ang mga rules nito. Mas physical ang era nina Jordan kesa sa ngayun pero mas physical ang era nina Russell. Kung manonood ka ng mga laro nung panahon ni Russell, walang high flying o mga dunk di katulad kina Jordan kasi pag ginawa mo yun nun, siguradong injury ang aabutin mo. Bakit? Sa panahon na yun, akala ng mga may ari saka ng NBA, mas physical ang labanan, mas gusto ng mga manonood.

wala pang 3 point nun kaya madugo ang labanan. minsan sa simpleng lay up lang eh pag minalas ka baka dumugo ang ilong mo pag inabot ka nina Wilt, Russell, Thurmond, etc. Jerry West broke his nose 9 times for the record.

 

Okay Manong Dimmu! I realized a lot of things, got time to really watch some videos about Bill Russell, and he won with Defense. In terms of impact for a team, he tops it all. Agreed!

But there are still a lot of facts that allowed him to do that:
fewer nba teams means fewer times to adjust against your opponent kasi kabasido mo na sila, lesser fatigue etc. (u dont have to fly to 30 different state), fewer playoff games for a quicker road to championship. Konti lang athletic and really talented sa era nila (easier for him to defend and rebound) Medyo imbalance ng konti kasi stacked ng future HOF ang boston palagi. Whether you agree or not, palagi nandyan yan.
About him being a player-coach, it is common sa era nila. After winning 9 championship with Red Auerbach then nagretire, alam na alam na ni Bill Russell yung systema ng team since he has high Basketball IQ. If he started his career as a player coach or started it early, that would be another story. Perhaps kung allowed pa rin sa era yan nila Magic Johnson or til now, malamang Player coach rin si Magic or si Kidd.

I based most of my replies sa mga players ng 80s-90s toughest NBA Era for me, where most players have to take a lot of beating from cheap shots and physical plays kaya greater yung respect ko kanila Magic, Bird, Jordan, Robinson, Hakeem, Wilkins etc.... I'm biased sa era na yan. At syempre gaya ng sabi mo Media Hype si Jordan, despite that advantage he's proven himself in all sort of categories (impact, stats, etc). If Utah Jazz or Phoenix Suns won championships instead na Bulls, most likely Karl Malone and/or Barkley will get the Media's attention. Not Jordan, not Pippen, not Phil Jackson.

[Ozymandias]

I'm saying na mas kabisado na ng Top and Better Teams ang mga okay teams noon. Let's say Heat 2013 will play against Bucks (2013) 8 times a year, kahit di pa natin alam ang result, we will have an idea na Heat will beat the Bucks atleast 5-6 times! Why? Mismatch ng mga players. Same with the Russell's Boston, there's a mismatch ng players.
The difference with Russell vs Wilt. Russell's more of a team player, defensive anchor and really wants to win kaya nga impact player diba? All Wilt was to pad his stats, he actually admitted that.

True about the 60s Russell, Wilt etc. na they always play atleast 45 minutes a game. Let's go back sa sinabi mo sa previous post mo, sinabi mo mas stacked ang teams at mas madaming quality players dahil konti lang ang teams, then why did Russell, Wilt, Baylor have to play that long? Only tells me they don't have good enough players to replace Russell, Wilt, etc.

I also read an article about Baylor serving in Military, while playing in NBA. Damn that was tough. They also have to play through injuries kahit may broken nose, torn achilles etc. at di nga talaga protected ng league rules ang mga cheap shots and swinging elbows. Hand check rules is also different that time compared to the present NBA season. Pero didn't change much about physicality, kasi dapat walang Detroit Pistons Bad Boys era.

Obviously I already know wlang 3 point line noon. Kaya nga ang baba ng FG% ng most players e, di pa ata uso shot selection, kung meron na 3 point line, then mas eexpect pa natin ang High Scoring game.

Also true about kay Pippen when Jordan first retired, he lead the bulls with 55 wins. It would be a different story too if they won a championship w/out MJ. Then we know they went for another 3peat with MJ Pip Rodman leading the bulls.