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Ferdinand Marcos was born in Sarrat, Ilocos North, on September 11, 1917, to Josefa Edralin and Mariano Marcos, both teachers. Mariano was later a two-term congressman and during World War II, a collaborator with the Japanese. Subsequently he was tied to four water buffalo by Filipino guerrillas and pulled apart. Marcos' real father, a man Marcos claimed was his "godfather," was a wealthy Chinese named Ferdinand Chua. He was a well-connected municipal judge who was responsible for much of Marcos' unusually good luck. Among other things, Chua paid for young Marcos' schooling and managed to influence the Philippine Supreme Court to throw out the solid testimony which in 1939 had convicted Marcos of murder.
Marcos did well in school, as he had an extraordinary memory which allowed him to quickly memorize complicated texts and recite them forwards or backwards. In college, Marcos' principal interest was the .22-caliber college pistol team. On September 20, 1935, Julio Nalundasan was at home celebrating that day's Congressional election victory over Mariano Marcos when he was shot and killed with a .22-caliber bullet fired by the 18-year-old Marcos. Three years later, the honors student who was in his senior year of law school, was arrested for Nalundasan's murder. A year later, now a law school graduate, he was found guilty "beyond any reasonable doubt." Jailed, Marcos spent six months writing his own 830-page appeal. He also took the Philippine bar exam and passed with scores so high he was accused of cheating. Upon an oral re-examination by the Supreme Court, Marcos scored even higher with his remarkable memory. When the Supreme Court finally took up Marcos's appeal in 1940, the judge in charge (allegedly influenced by Judge Chua) was disposed to simply throw the case out. Marcos was a free man. The next day, he returned to the Supreme Court where he was administered his oath as a lawyer.
Marcos emerged from World War II with the reputation of being the greatest Filipino resistance leader of the war and the most decorated soldier in the U.S. Armed forces. (Marcos served in the U.S. Army at the beginning and the end of the war as a "third lieutenant" on clerical duty, for a time in 1944 he was a U.S. prisoner of war under a death sentence) The Army investigated these claims after the war and found them to be false and "criminal." In fact, Marcos seems to have spent the war on both sides, and at various times, was in hospitals with fevers and stomach pains, possibly from the onset of lupus, the degenerative disease that ultimately ruined his health. In early 1943 in Manila, Marcos concocted a "secret" resistance organization called Ang Mga Maharlika ("Noble Studs") which he claimed consisted of spies, saboteurs and assassins, but in fact consisted of many forgers, pickpockets, gunmen and racketeers, united by an interest in black market operations.
At the war's end, as a deputy to the U.S. Army judge advocate general in northern Luzon, Marcos was involved in choosing friends and relatives to fill minor civil service jobs, passing out favors to be redeemed later. After, he resumed his law practice, often filing false claims in Washington on behalf of Filipino veterans seeking back pay and benefits. Emboldened by his success, he filed a $595,000 claim on his own behalf, stating that the U.S. Army had commandeered over 2,000 head of brahmin cattle from Mariano Marcos's wholly imaginary ranch in Mindinao. Washington concluded that the cattle had never existed. Marcos also tried to get recognition and benefits for his resistance force, the Ang Mga Maharlika; army investigators concluded that Marcos's unit was fraudulent.
In December, 1948, after a luncheon meeting with Marcos, a magazine editor published four articles on Marcos's extraordinary war exploits, including the history of the Maharlika just after the army's findings of fraud. Marcos' reputation grew. In 1949, campaigning on promises to get veterans' benefits for 2 million more "unrecognized" Filipinos, Marcos ran on the Liberal Party ticket for a seat in the Philippine House of Representatives and won astonishingly, with 70 percent of the vote. In less than a year he was worth a million dollars and owned a Cadillac convertible, mostly because of his American tobacco subsidies, a colossal cigarette smuggling operation, and his practice of extorting commissions from Chinese businesses. In 1954 he formally met Imelda Romualdez and married her.
Marcos was reelected twice, and in 1959 was elected to the Philippine Senate. He was also the Liberal Party's vice-president from 1954-1961, when he successfully managed Diosdado Macapagal's campaign for the Philippine presidency. As part of the deal, Macapagal was supposed to step aside after one term to allow Marcos to run for the presidency, but when Macapagal reneged, Marcos joined the opposition Nationalist Party and became their candidate in the 1965 election against Macapagal, which Marcos won handily strongly helped by Hartzell Spence's biography, called For Every Tear A Victory.
In 1969, Marcos became the first Philippine president to win a second term; the month following produced the most violent and bloody public demonstrations so far in the history of the country. Three years later, facing growing student unrest and a crumbling economy, Marcos declared martial law, using as his excuse the growing rebel presence of the Communist New People's Army. During the nine years of martial law, he tripled the armed forces to some 200,000 troops, guaranteeing his grip on government, and when martial law was lifted in 1981, he kept all the power he had been granted by himself. Bled to death, the economy continued to crumble as Ferdinand and Imelda became "arguably the richest couple on the planet." Marcos's health began to fail, the United States cooled off, and political opposition took hold in the Philippine middle class.
The Marcos regime began its accelerated collapse after the August 1983 assassination of Benigno S. Aquino, Jr., gunned down at the Manila airport upon his return after a self-imposed three-year exile. The killing enraged Filipinos, as did the official story that the murder was the work of a single assassin. A year later, a civilian investigation brought indictments against a number of soldiers and government officials, but by 1985 they all had been acquitted. In a surprising blunder, Marcos, thinking to regain control of the situation, called for a "snap election" to be held early in 1986. The election was marred by violence and charges of fraud; his opponent was the martyred Aquino's widow, Corazon. When the Philippine National Assembly announced that Marcos was the winner, a military rebellion, supported by hundreds of thousands of Filipinos marching in the streets, forced the Marcos to flee the country. Marcos' plea to the Americans for help produced nothing more than a U.S. Air Force jet, which flew him and Imelda to Hawaii. He remained there until his death in 1989. They took with them some 300 crates of prized possessions and more than 28 million cash, in Philippine currency. President Aquino's administration said this was only a small part of the Marcos's five to ten billion of illegally acquired wealth; Ferdinand's frozen bank accounts in Switzerland were said to have $475 million. In 1995, the government was able to auction off three jewelry collections worth $13 million.
Economy During MArcos
To help finance a number of economic development projects, the Marcos government borrowed large amounts of money from international lenders.[45][46] The Philippines' external debt rose from $360 million (US) in 1962 to $28.3 billion in 1986, making the Philippines one of the most indebted countries in Asia.[45] A sizable amount of this money went to Marcos family and friends in the form of behest loans. These loans were assumed by the government and still being serviced by taxpayers. Today, more than half of the country's revenues are outlaid for the payments on the interests of loans alone.[citation needed]
Foreign capital was invited to invest in certain industrial projects. They were offered incentives, including tax exemption privileges and the privilege of bringing out their profits in foreign currencies. One of the most important economic programs in the 1980s was the Kilusang Kabuhayan at Kaunlaran (Movement for Livelihood and Progress). This program was started in September 1981. Its aim was to promote the economic development of the barangays by encouraging its residents to engage in their own livelihood projects. The government's efforts resulted in the increase of the nation's economic growth rate to an average of six percent or seven percent from 1970 to 1980.[47]
The Philippine economy suffered a great decline after the Aquino assassination in August 1983. The political troubles hindered the entry of foreign investments, and foreign banks stopped granting loans to the Philippine government.[citation needed] In an attempt to launch a national economic recovery program, Marcos negotiated with foreign creditors including the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, World Bank, and the International Monetary Fund (IMF), for a restructuring of the country's foreign debts – to give the Philippines more time to pay the loans. Marcos ordered a cut in government expenditures and used a portion of the savings to finance the Sariling Sikap (Self-Reliance), a livelihood program he established in 1984.[citation needed]
However, the economy experienced negative economic growth from the beginning of 1984 and continued to decline despite the government's recovery efforts. The recovery program's failure was caused by civil unrest, rampant graft and corruption within the government, and Marcos's lack of credibility. Marcos himself diverted large sums of government money to his party's campaign funds. The unemployment rate ballooned from 6.30% in 1972 to 27.65% in 1985.[48][citation needed]
Between 1972 and 1980, the average monthly income of wage workers had fallen by 20%. By 1981, the wealthiest 10% of the population was receiving twice as much income as the bottom 60%.[49]
With help from the Rockefeller and Ford Foundations, Marcos brought the "Green Revolution" (industrialized, chemical agriculture) to the Philippines. These reforms resulted in high profits for transnational corporations, but were generally harmful to small, peasant farmers who were often pushed into poverty.[50] After declaring martial law in 1972, Marcos promised to implement agrarian reforms. However, the land reforms "served largely to undermine Marcos' landholder opponents, not to lessen inequality in the countryside",[51] and "encouraged conversion to cash tenancy and greater reliance on farm workers".[52] From 1972 to 1980, agricultural production fell by 30%.[49]
Under Marcos, exports of timber products were among the nation's top exports. Little attention was paid to environmental impacts of deforestation. By the early 1980s, the industry collapsed because most of the Philippines' accessible forests had been depleted.[53]
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Ayos. Naging current events ang isang article galing sa Wikipedia. Ano ba ang bago kay Ferdinand Marcos at naging current event ito?
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is this an article? or a wiki document?
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This is Wikileaks but i posted it in current events because mostly Filipinos forgot the atrocities committed by this family to our nation..
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its just his history and its nothing new about it
cause i made a paper about him before for our school paper
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Pero sabi ng mga matatanda sa amin. Mas okay daw ang buhay noon nun si marcos ang presidente.
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Pero sabi ng mga matatanda sa amin. Mas okay daw ang buhay noon nun si marcos ang presidente.
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yup its true thats before on his first few years
before the financial crisis and rebellions started and forced marcos Declare martial law
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hmmm...may his soul
Rest In Peace...Amen!
;D
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We are reminded of Marcos' atrocities almost on a daily basis my friend.
I know he was a corrupt d*ck. He was smart, and madami siya nagawa but power went to his head and more so with his cronies. Who guess what? Still enjoying it today.
After all it was only macoy that was the bad guy. He personally jailed, murdered, shot, took the money from the big Philippine government ATM. He had no accomplices at all. He said hey I declare martial law. No congress was there to ratify it. No police to implement it. He did this all singe handedly. I swear that guy is a mutant.
The Philippines was indeed great after 1986. Corruption is gone, oppression is gone, brainwashing of the masses is gone, the people are wealthy, prosperous, and peace and harmony ruled the land.
Oh wait.
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Pero bumabalik na rin tayo kung ano estado noon before maging prosperous ang pilipinas.
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this is true.. akala kasi ng iba, buong 21 years ni marcos eh manlad ang Pilipinas..
di nila alam na first 5 years lang in the office nangyari yun and the remaining years is a brutal corruption and mismanagement..
And until now, di pa rin tayo nakakatapos magbayad sa mga utang nya..
Also the Moro uprising start because of Marcos but only few knows about it..
yup its true thats before on his first few years
before the financial crisis and rebellions started and forced marcos Declare martial law
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this is true.. akala kasi ng iba, buong 21 years ni marcos eh manlad ang Pilipinas..
di nila alam na first 5 years lang in the office nangyari yun and the remaining years is a brutal corruption and mismanagement..
And until now, di pa rin tayo nakakatapos magbayad sa mga utang nya..
Also the Moro uprising start because of Marcos but only few knows about it..
well things escalate quickly but it isn't settled easily
for that our generation and the next two more will suffer for it
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thanks for the info
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thanks for this kind of information
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very informative, may isa akong alam..marcos delivered an improntu speech in US Senate. walang kodigo na binabasa straigth english..i think he got a standing ovation after his speech
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Halos perfect score sya nun bar exam 98.xx at nakakulong pa sya nyan. Binabaan lang ng supreme court para wala na lumabas na kung anoan issue dahil sa sobrang taas na nakuha nya.
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Halos perfect score sya nun bar exam 98.xx at nakakulong pa sya nyan. Binabaan lang ng supreme court para wala na lumabas na kung anoan issue dahil sa sobrang taas na nakuha nya.
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well true siya ang pinaka matalino sa lahat ng naging presidents based on academics
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Sayang nung Nuclear Power Plant, ginawa lang museum langya. Paranoid kasi ang taong bayan tsk tsk tsk
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Di natin sila masisisi bro, Natrakot lang sila sa nangyari sa Chernobyl..
Basahin mo bro yung Chernobyl para makita mo ang trahedyang dulot ng Nuclear Power Plant. Saka may fault line pala ito sa ilalim kaya talagang delikado...
Sayang nung Nuclear Power Plant, ginawa lang museum langya. Paranoid kasi ang taong bayan tsk tsk tsk
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Di natin sila masisisi bro, Natrakot lang sila sa nangyari sa Chernobyl..
Basahin mo bro yung Chernobyl para makita mo ang trahedyang dulot ng Nuclear Power Plant. Saka may fault line pala ito sa ilalim kaya talagang delikado...
Yup alam ko Chernobyl disaster. Flawed kasi yung reactor design nila kaya yun nangyari.
"Reaktor Bolshoy Moschnosti Kanalniy (High Power Channel Reactor) (RBMK) A Soviet design, built to produce plutonium as well as power. RBMK reactors are still considered one of the most dangerous reactor designs in use."
Samantalang galing yung reactor natin sa Westinghouse na isang US Electric company(though controversial at overpriced siyang na acquire). PWR o Pressurized Water Reactor yung desing ng saatin. Ang design na ito ang bumubuo sa majority ng mga active reactors hanggang ngayon.
"The use of water as a moderator is an important safety feature of PWRs, as any increase in temperature causes the water to expand and become less dense; thereby reducing the extent to which neutrons are slowed down and hence reducing the reactivity in the reactor. Therefore, if reactivity increases beyond normal, the reduced moderation of neutrons will cause the chain reaction to slow down, producing less heat. This property, known as the negative temperature coefficient of reactivity, makes PWR reactors very stable"
Walang masyadong problema sa quake kasi may mga countermeasures dito. Ilang quakes na ang dumaan at sumabog pa ang Mt. Pinatubo noong 1991 at intact pa rin ang BNPP. Ang kinakatakot ko lang ay yung competence ng mga tao na mag me-maintain/operate nito. Pero kung mag hire tayo ng mga nuclear experts para mag operate ng facility then walang gaanong magiging problema.
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Of course the nuclear scientists and engineers who rely on the nuclear industry for a living will tell us that science and technology will take care of everything. But they know that even up to now the decommissioning of nuclear plants with a normal lifespan of only 30 years will even cost more than its construction, as a decommissioned nuclear plant with its radioactive wastes will continue put risks to health and safety of the people, as well as threaten the environment. We will need at least 20-25 years to develop the necessary scientific and technological infrastructure and national capability to operate a commercial nuclear power plant to respond to nuclear accidents, plant upgrades, repairs and maintenance, nuclear waste disposal and other related problems.
U.S. nuclear engineer Robert Pollard who did his own inspection of the BNPP in the early 80s after the Three Mile Island accident in the United States then concluded that the BNPP is not safe since it used an old design plagued with unresolved safety issues, making it a potential hazard to the safety and health of the public.
This reaffirmed the Puno Commission's report in 1980 that warned of these flaws. The Puno Commission had made the following conclusions:
1. The BNPP is not safe.
2. It is an old design plagued with unresolved safety issues, thus it is a potential hazard to the health and safety of the public.
3. Its design needs fundamental changes and additional safeguards.
4. Its safety is not assured because no safety devices were installed.
5. The crucial problem of nuclear waste disposal had not been solved. These safety issues were never really addressed nor resolved by the contractor Westinghouse after both the Puno Commission and Dr. Pollard had pointed them out, as shown by later technical audits of the BNPP in the post Marcos era.
Dr. Kelvin Rodolfo, a noted geologist and Professor Emeritus from the University of Illinois has recently warned that, based on his scientific studies published in International Science Index journals, the BNPP "sits on Mt. Natib, which is a caldera volcano like Mt. Pinatubo", and that numerous faults of Mt. Natib were found to be extended to Morong, Bataan. Undoubtedly, the BNPP was a man-made financial disaster, so let us not make it into a national disaster.
Humankind continues to pay an enormous health and environmental price for the development of nuclear power plants and nuclear weapons in many parts of the world. Diseases related to the "invisible poison" of radioactive contamination not only from previous nuclear plant accidents/leakages, and weapons testing but also from the so-called peaceful uses of nuclear energy in power plants haunt the victims who suffer from radiation-related diseases. Even countries who pride themselves on being at the forefront of nuclear technology have thousands of citizens who are experiencing diseases related to "low-level radiation."
Yup alam ko Chernobyl disaster. Flawed kasi yung reactor design nila kaya yun nangyari.
"Reaktor Bolshoy Moschnosti Kanalniy (High Power Channel Reactor) (RBMK) A Soviet design, built to produce plutonium as well as power. RBMK reactors are still considered one of the most dangerous reactor designs in use."
Samantalang galing yung reactor natin sa Westinghouse na isang US Electric company(though controversial at overpriced siyang na acquire). PWR o Pressurized Water Reactor yung desing ng saatin. Ang design na ito ang bumubuo sa majority ng mga active reactors hanggang ngayon.
"The use of water as a moderator is an important safety feature of PWRs, as any increase in temperature causes the water to expand and become less dense; thereby reducing the extent to which neutrons are slowed down and hence reducing the reactivity in the reactor. Therefore, if reactivity increases beyond normal, the reduced moderation of neutrons will cause the chain reaction to slow down, producing less heat. This property, known as the negative temperature coefficient of reactivity, makes PWR reactors very stable"
Walang masyadong problema sa quake kasi may mga countermeasures dito. Ilang quakes na ang dumaan at sumabog pa ang Mt. Pinatubo noong 1991 at intact pa rin ang BNPP. Ang kinakatakot ko lang ay yung competence ng mga tao na mag me-maintain/operate nito. Pero kung mag hire tayo ng mga nuclear experts para mag operate ng facility then walang gaanong magiging problema.
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(From Another Source)
The Bataan Nuclear Power Plant (BNPP) located in Morong, Bataan was constructed during the martial law regime of then President Ferdinand E. Marcos. Westinghouse was contracted to build this light water reactor, designed to produce 621 megawatts of electricity as response to the growing energy requirements of the country. While the original loan was $600M for two units, it ballooned to $2.3 billion for one unit.
After Marcos left the country after the peaceful People Power Revolution, Westinghouse withdrew from the project in 1986. In 1988, the Aquino government commissioned a series of assessment studies focused on two concerns (Saguisag, Statement on the Bataan Nuclear Power Plant dated January 9, 1991) with the end view of determining whether the facility could be opened: “First, and foremost, serious questions had been raised by responsible parties on whether the BNPP was safe as designed and constructed. Second, there had been persistent rumours and speculation that he (Marcos) had been bribed in connection with the award of the BNPP contracts.” (Saguisag 1991)
In these contexts, a United Nations-funded study secured through the support of the Centre on Transnational Corporations, revealed that the Westinghouse-abandoned project since then carefully maintained in a state of preservation by the National Power Corporation (NAPOCOR) “did not meet applicable regulatory and contractual requirements.” (Saguisag 1991) Moreover, the government-commissioned report June 1988 “confirmed that serious design, construction, and quality assurance problems existed in the plant . . . and recommended that a further, more extensive examination be undertaken to investigate known problem areas and to examine others not yet reviewed.” (Saguisag 1991) James Keppler, a former senior official of the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission responsible for inspection and licensing, described the overall results of a year-long study ending in September 1990 conducted by American and European nuclear experts on the BNPP compiled in twenty-eight (28) volumes as revealing
“. . . the pervasive and significant deficiencies in the design, construction, quality assurance and startup testing of BNPP. The identified deficiencies are so pervasive and severe---that the plant cannot be expected to operate safely and without undue risk to public health and safety until those deficiencies and their generic implications are satisfactorily resolved.” (Saguisag 1991)
The records brought by the fleeing President Marcos and impounded by US law enforcement in Hawaii show that “. . . he shared, directly or indirectly, in millions of dollars of ‘commissions’ paid by Westinghouse and Burns and Roe . . . and also benefited personally in other ways from the plant. There is no question that the BNPP contracts were tainted by corruption.” (Saguisag 1991) {Underlining ours}
Based on these findings, the BNPP was mothballed by the Aquino government.
GREEN CONVERGENCE for Safe Food, Healthy Environment, and Sustainable Economy, a social movement of environmental non-governmental organizations and various networks/coalitions, appeals to Congress not to recommission the BNPP and for civil society to resist attempts for the same. We base our positions on the following reasons:
* BNPP sits on the slope of Mt. Natib, a volcano, and is surrounded by 2 other volcanoes, Mt. Pinatubo and Mt. Mariveles. An eruption by any of these could result in mechanical or nuclear problems which could release radioactive material into the air, water and soil.
* The plant has numerous serious technical defects
* Thee cost of recommissioning which, at the time of the studies pointed to $1 billion. It should be much more now that global safety standards are higher.
* Disposal of nuclear waste will be a problem. As yet, no nation has addressed this problem satisfactorily.
* Radioactivity is associated with routine operations of nuclear power plants
* Insurance companies are staying away from nuclear power plants. What chance does the defective BNPP have of being insured?
* Nuclear power is not for the Philippines, being situated on the juncture of 4 tectonic plates and is thus extremely geologically active.
* the Philippines has a lot of sources of renewable energy. Geothermal and wind power, separately and together are computed to be able to meet all of our energy requirements. Each has much lower capital and operational costs. Solar energy has just been tapped to contribute to our electricity grid and holds much potential.
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Yeah I know. What I meant ay Marcos took the initiative to harness nuclear energy. I'm not talking about the safety of BNPP but the safety of nuclear energy if a facility is built right and manned right. Ginawa ko lang example BNPP sa quake resistance niya kasi as far as I know unscathed siya. Also taking into consideration yung reactor design which is PWR compared to Chernobyl's RBMK.
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Para kasing sa pagkaintindi ko ay dapat ipinagpatuloy ni Aquino na ang Nuclear Power Plant kaya nagpost ako ng article saying the reasons why hindi ito pinayagang mag operate.
marami pa rin kasi ang mga di nakakaalam kung bakit di nag operate ang BNPP. Meron nga akong nabasa na galit lang daw si Cory kay marcos kaya di ito pinayagang mag operate..
kaya pinost ko ito para malaman ng mga di nakakaalam yung real reason behind BNPP.
Yeah I know. What I meant ay Marcos took the initiative to harness nuclear energy. I'm not talking about the safety of BNPP but the safety of nuclear energy if a facility is built right and manned right. Ginawa ko lang example BNPP sa quake resistance niya kasi as far as I know unscathed siya. Also taking into consideration yung reactor design which is PWR compared to Chernobyl's RBMK.
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di ito current events TS, good info though, a refresher... I still believe Marcos is the best president the philippines had..
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pls. read the previous comment..
this is a wikileaks documents. it was posted here for the purpose of informing the new generation of the real Marcos.
Nowadays, specially young generations are ignorant if not totally ignorant of the true condition of our country during Marcos reign.
History will repeat itself if we will not learned from the past"
As Martin Luther said:
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
di ito current events TS, good info though, a refresher... I still believe Marcos is the best president the philippines had..
:-\
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marcos was a great men surrounded by greedy people.. yes he was in helm when all those killing and abuses happened.. but those surrounding him was the one that did the killings and abusing not him.. and admit it or not.. all of the projects those presidents are doing right now was part of the plan marcos build.. he had great plans for the country destroyed by a few that are now the ones running the government..
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Too ignorant comment...
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
marcos was a great men surrounded by greedy people.. yes he was in helm when all those killing and abuses happened.. but those surrounding him was the one that did the killings and abusing not him.. and admit it or not.. all of the projects those presidents are doing right now was part of the plan marcos build.. he had great plans for the country destroyed by a few that are now the ones running the government..
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pls. read the previous comment..
this is a wikileaks documents. it was posted here for the purpose of informing the new generation of the real Marcos.
Nowadays, specially young generations are ignorant if not totally ignorant of the true condition of our country during Marcos reign.
History will repeat itself if we will not learned from the past"
As Martin Luther said:
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
have you seen all the leaked infos that wikileaks had released pertainining with marcos? did you know that most of those leaks came from the CIA?
the CIA during the second term of marcos were already wary of marcos plans on nationalizing strategic industries and because of that, US interests here in the Philippines are threatened.
American intelligence operatives planned for years to remove Marcos and ultimately succeeded by placing the widow of his nemesis. Have you ever wondered who really killed Ninoy? of course you're gonna point a finger again on the same and often-maligned president.
So if you're gonna say that you want younger generations to know more about what happened to his presidency, i don't think that wikileaks is the best source for "enlightenment" sir.
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Excerpts from Britannica Concise Encyclopedia... Ferdinand Edralin Marcos...
"The Philippine economy suffered a great decline after the Aquino assassination in August 1983. The political troubles hindered the entry of foreign investments, and foreign banks stopped granting loans to the Philippine government.[citation needed] In an attempt to launch a national economic recovery program, Marcos negotiated with foreign creditors including the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, World Bank, and the International Monetary Fund (IMF), for a restructuring of the country's foreign debts – to give the Philippines more time to pay the loans. Marcos ordered a cut in government expenditures and used a portion of the savings to finance the Sariling Sikap (Self-Reliance), a livelihood program he established in 1984.[citation needed]
However, the economy experienced negative economic growth from the beginning of 1984 and continued to decline despite the government's recovery efforts. The recovery program's failure was caused by civil unrest, rampant graft and corruption within the government, and Marcos's lack of credibility. Marcos himself diverted large sums of government money to his party's campaign funds. The unemployment rate ballooned from 6.30% in 1972 to 27.65% in 1985.[48][citation needed]
Between 1972 and 1980, the average monthly income of wage workers had fallen by 20%. By 1981, the wealthiest 10% of the population was receiving twice as much income as the bottom 60%.[49]
With help from the Rockefeller and Ford Foundations, Marcos brought the "Green Revolution" (industrialized, chemical agriculture) to the Philippines. These reforms resulted in high profits for transnational corporations, but were generally harmful to small, peasant farmers who were often pushed into poverty.[50] After declaring martial law in 1972, Marcos promised to implement agrarian reforms. However, the land reforms "served largely to undermine Marcos' landholder opponents, not to lessen inequality in the countryside",[51] and "encouraged conversion to cash tenancy and greater reliance on farm workers".[52] From 1972 to 1980, agricultural production fell by 30%.[49]
Under Marcos, exports of timber products were among the nation's top exports. Little attention was paid to environmental impacts of deforestation. By the early 1980s, the industry collapsed because most of the Philippines' accessible forests had been depleted
Rockefeller and Ford Foundations help us so I don't know why they will help us if US government wanted to remove Marcos from office....
American intelligence operatives planned for years to remove Marcos and ultimately succeeded by placing the widow of his nemesis. Have you ever wondered who really killed Ninoy? of course you're gonna point a finger again on the same and often-maligned president.
have you seen all the leaked infos that wikileaks had released pertainining with marcos? did you know that most of those leaks came from the CIA?
The remaining article esp. about Bataan Nuclear Plant came from different article not Wikileaks or WIkipedia...
the CIA during the second term of marcos were already wary of marcos plans on nationalizing strategic industries and because of that, US interests here in the Philippines are threatened.
American intelligence operatives planned for years to remove Marcos and ultimately succeeded by placing the widow of his nemesis. Have you ever wondered who really killed Ninoy? of course you're gonna point a finger again on the same and often-maligned president.
So if you're gonna say that you want younger generations to know more about what happened to his presidency, i don't think that wikileaks is the best source for "enlightenment" sir.
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Rockefeller and Ford Foundations help us so I don't know why they will help us if US government wanted to remove Marcos from office....
Ford and Rockefeller foundations are not the US Government..The US Government had foreseen it has more to gain under a new administration.
Have you ever read Cecilio Arillo's books like: A Country Imperiled and Greed and Betrayal? I'm pretty sure the younger generation you're addressing would be much enlightened. ;)
And by the way a lot of Western Propagandists and Writers would really set the tone of despising our former President the same way they belittle other Asian Leaders who are contemporaries of Marcos e.g. Suharto, Mahathir, and brand them authoritarian or totalitarian rulers.
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Yeah I know. What I meant ay Marcos took the initiative to harness nuclear energy. I'm not talking about the safety of BNPP but the safety of nuclear energy if a facility is built right and manned right. Ginawa ko lang example BNPP sa quake resistance niya kasi as far as I know unscathed siya. Also taking into consideration yung reactor design which is PWR compared to Chernobyl's RBMK.
It wasn't Marcos who took the initiative, unless by 'initiative' we include the initiative of profiting from the BNPP contracts. It was his cousin-in-law (Herminio Disini, whose wife is Imelda's cousin) who acted as the bagman/middleman for Westinghouse (the supplier) and other contractors. We continue to pay for the BNPP loan. Disini has a warrant of arrest and has fled to Austria with the money he took.
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This is for For Foundation allegedly funding CIA..
CIA as you mentioned, planned to remove Marcos from Office,
it seems the two are contradicting..
In 1967, the foundation was implicated in a wide-ranging scandal concerning the funding of domestic and international organizations by the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).[19][20] The CIA had been laundering its funds for dozens of organizations and events, and the foundation served as one of its main fronts.[21] John J. McCloy, the foundation's chairman from 1958–1965, knowingly employed numerous agents and, based on the premise that a relationship with the CIA was inevitable, set up a three-person committee responsible for dealing with its requests
Rockfeller Family :
Nelson Aldrich Rockefeller, (born July 8, 1908, Bar Harbor, Maine, U.S.—died Jan. 26, 1979, New York City), 41st vice president of the United States (1974–77) in the Republican administration of President Gerald Ford, four-term governor of New York (1959–73), and leader of the liberal wing of the Republican Party. He unsuccessfully sought the presidential nomination of his party three times.
Rockefeller was the son of John D. Rockefeller, Jr., a businessman, and Abby Greene Aldrich. He was a grandson of one of America’s wealthiest people, John D. Rockefeller, Sr., founder of the Standard Oil Company.
Rockfeller Family, have a strong impact to US.
At the beginning of the crisis-torn 1970's, certain influential persons within the American establishment had clearly decided a drastic shift in direction of US global policy was in order.
The most influential persons were David and Nelson Rockefeller, and the group of influential political and business figures around the Rockefeller family. The family's power center was the exclusive organization created in the aftermath of World War I, the New York Council on Foreign Relations.
In the 1960's the Rockefellers were at the power center of the US establishment. The family and its various foundations dominated think-tanks, academia, government and private business in the 1960's in a manner no other single family in United States history had managed to then. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger had been their hand-picked protégé, recruited from Harvard in the late 1950's to work for a new Rockefeller Foundation project.
Rockefeller and Ford Foundations help us so I don't know why they will help us if US government wanted to remove Marcos from office....
Ford and Rockefeller foundations are not the US Government..The US Government had foreseen it has more to gain under a new administration.
Have you ever read Cecilio Arillo's books like: A Country Imperiled and Greed and Betrayal? I'm pretty sure the younger generation you're addressing would be much enlightened. ;)
And by the way a lot of Western Propagandists and Writers would really set the tone of despising our former President the same way they belittle other Asian Leaders who are contemporaries of Marcos e.g. Suharto, Mahathir, and brand them authoritarian or totalitarian rulers.
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Let the dead rest
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have you seen all the leaked infos that wikileaks had released pertainining with marcos? did you know that most of those leaks came from the CIA?
the CIA during the second term of marcos were already wary of marcos plans on nationalizing strategic industries and because of that, US interests here in the Philippines are threatened.
American intelligence operatives planned for years to remove Marcos and ultimately succeeded by placing the widow of his nemesis. Have you ever wondered who really killed Ninoy? of course you're gonna point a finger again on the same and often-maligned president.
So if you're gonna say that you want younger generations to know more about what happened to his presidency, i don't think that wikileaks is the best source for "enlightenment" sir.
Bravo kiddo.
Anyway Marcos had always been the scapegoat for several succeeding administrations incompetence.
Cult mentality 101. Always have a common enemy.
The media bombards us with anti Marcos rethoric nakaka turete na. It's ridiculous.
Yung mga pumalit ba eh malilinis? Hmmm? How many edsas does the Philippines need before it wakes up to the fact that the masses are being fooled and herded like sheep?
Like I've said on a previous post, the people was never the king maker. It's always been the media.
Sino ba nakaaway ni Marcos? Oh wait lopez? Parang I've heard of them.. media din ata business nila?
And by the way, it's in the Aquinos best interest to malign and demonize Marcos. Otherwise they will lose their legitimacy. Kaya kahit maganda ang projects, they tend to scrap it.
And the bs about Chernobyl? It doesn't happen very often. Most highly industrialized countries have been utilizing this. It's a sad fact, cheap electricity will be detrimental to those who stand to profit from it. Sino nga pala ang prominent na family na may stake sa meralco at the time? Oh..
P.S.
Marcos was no saint, he did have some shennanigans of his own, pero to claim that he did not do anything right, and paint those who believe in him as ignorant is being disingenous or at the worst a shill.
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This is for For Foundation allegedly funding CIA..
CIA as you mentioned, planned to remove Marcos from Office,
it seems the two are contradicting..
In 1967, the foundation was implicated in a wide-ranging scandal concerning the funding of domestic and international organizations by the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).[19][20] The CIA had been laundering its funds for dozens of organizations and events, and the foundation served as one of its main fronts.[21] John J. McCloy, the foundation's chairman from 1958–1965, knowingly employed numerous agents and, based on the premise that a relationship with the CIA was inevitable, set up a three-person committee responsible for dealing with its requests
Rockfeller Family :
Nelson Aldrich Rockefeller, (born July 8, 1908, Bar Harbor, Maine, U.S.—died Jan. 26, 1979, New York City), 41st vice president of the United States (1974–77) in the Republican administration of President Gerald Ford, four-term governor of New York (1959–73), and leader of the liberal wing of the Republican Party. He unsuccessfully sought the presidential nomination of his party three times.
Rockefeller was the son of John D. Rockefeller, Jr., a businessman, and Abby Greene Aldrich. He was a grandson of one of America’s wealthiest people, John D. Rockefeller, Sr., founder of the Standard Oil Company.
Rockfeller Family, have a strong impact to US.
At the beginning of the crisis-torn 1970's, certain influential persons within the American establishment had clearly decided a drastic shift in direction of US global policy was in order.
The most influential persons were David and Nelson Rockefeller, and the group of influential political and business figures around the Rockefeller family. The family's power center was the exclusive organization created in the aftermath of World War I, the New York Council on Foreign Relations.
In the 1960's the Rockefellers were at the power center of the US establishment. The family and its various foundations dominated think-tanks, academia, government and private business in the 1960's in a manner no other single family in United States history had managed to then. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger had been their hand-picked protégé, recruited from Harvard in the late 1950's to work for a new Rockefeller Foundation project.
It's not really contradicting, we all know the CIA would really apply the US hawkish policies on any country where it has a great stake. If these two American foundations indeed helped Marcos during his time, we should also consider that these foundations benefited greatly as well.
The US gameplan has been consistent all along, removing, pressuring and containing regimes that they consider hostile to their ulterior motives. Remember the numerous Central and South American regimes which started to assert and nationalize their resources, one by one the US concocted combination of military coups, sponsored revolutions and installed leaders friendly to Washington Policies.
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Bravo kiddo.
Anyway Marcos had always been the scapegoat for several succeeding administrations incompetence.
Cult mentality 101. Always have a common enemy.
The media bombards us with anti Marcos rethoric nakaka turete na. It's ridiculous.
Yung mga pumalit ba eh malilinis? Hmmm? How many edsas does the Philippines need before it wakes up to the fact that the masses are being fooled and herded like sheep?
Like I've said on a previous post, the people was never the king maker. It's always been the media.
Sino ba nakaaway ni Marcos? Oh wait lopez? Parang I've heard of them.. media din ata business nila?
And by the way, it's in the Aquinos best interest to malign and demonize Marcos. Otherwise they will lose their legitimacy. Kaya kahit maganda ang projects, they tend to scrap it.
And the bs about Chernobyl? It doesn't happen very often. Most highly industrialized countries have been utilizing this. It's a sad fact, cheap electricity will be detrimental to those who stand to profit from it. Sino nga pala ang prominent na family na may stake sa meralco at the time? Oh..
P.S.
Marcos was no saint, he did have some shennanigans of his own, pero to claim that he did not do anything right, and paint those who believe in him as ignorant is being disingenous or at the worst a shill.
In our times, the Yellow propaganda seems to have attracted a lot of followers without even realizing that Ninoy is no Mandela, Gandhi, Nehru, Tunku or Rizal.
Ninoy is of the same ilk of his contemporaries like Marcos. Politicians who exploit patronage politics. No wonder he's been an alternative to the Marcoses for the Americans.
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It's not really contradicting, we all know the CIA would really apply the US hawkish policies on any country where it has a great stake. If these two American foundations indeed helped Marcos during his time, we should also consider that these foundations benefited greatly as well.
lets make things simple, rockfeller & ford foundations are helping us, so bakit nila aalisin si makoy? di ba pag umunlad tayo, si marcos ang magbebenefit ng lahat?
kung nagbebenefit sila, di ba dapat di nga nila alisin si makoy which is contradicting dun sa sinabi mo na gustong alisin ng CIA si makoy?
I can't see the logic na gusto mong alisin tapos tinutulungan mo..
"And the bs about Chernobyl? It doesn't happen very often. Most highly industrialized countries have been utilizing this. It's a sad fact, cheap electricity will be detrimental to those who stand to profit from it. Sino nga pala ang prominent na family na may stake sa meralco at the time? Oh.."
And how about kung mangyari ang Chernobyl dito sa atin, remember, two studies ang ginawa ng mga eksperto at ang recommendation nila ay closure ng BNPP.
Many groups also ayaw talagang pabuksan ang BNPP. Ngayon kung halimbawang nagoperate ang BNPP at may aksidenteng nangyari, sinong sisihin natin?
Let us complain kung for operational ang resulta ng 2 studies and yet di nag operate ang BNPP...
Im not saying na walang ginawang maganda si marcos, im just making it clear to all ang mga ipinopost kong topic and trying to depend it as long as i know.
"In our times, the Yellow propaganda seems to have attracted a lot of followers without even realizing that Ninoy is no Mandela, Gandhi, Nehru, Tunku or Rizal. "
Aquino is no saint at all, like Binay, Enrile, etc. who go up against Marcos. But this is not all about color.. It is not about pro or anti. It is about truth.... Anyway di lang naman channel 2 ang station dito sa atin.. Meron pang iba na pwedeng source..
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lets make things simple, rockfeller & ford foundations are helping us, so bakit nila aalisin si makoy? di ba pag umunlad tayo, si marcos ang magbebenefit ng lahat?
kung nagbebenefit sila, di ba dapat di nga nila alisin si makoy which is contradicting dun sa sinabi mo na gustong alisin ng CIA si makoy?
I can't see the logic na gusto mong alisin tapos tinutulungan mo..
Come on Sir Dimmu Borgir, don't be so naive, Marcos became a hard headed America's boy on his way to his second term, even if he benefited from American Foundation, these American foundations are not the bedrock of American foreign policy and interests. Meaning may kanya-kanya din itong interests na solely sa 2 foundations lang ang makikinabang.
The CIA acts on the greater American Policy Interests and of course not only from such foundations but of their own government. If you have critically analyzed documentary programs leading to the EDSA Elite's uprising the Opposition led by Ninoy's widow would be the best alternative in promoting US interests. Isn't it that corruption even worsened after the Marcoses were expelled at Malacanang? US Bases which served as dumping grounds for surplus US products and nuclear wastes are always the bargaining chip for the US.
The US had seen the ailing Marcos no longer as an America's boy as he used to be. Cory would be next on their experiment and she did good. Look at where we are now. Her son followed her footsteps.
Im not saying na walang ginawang maganda si marcos, im just making it clear to all ang mga ipinopost kong topic and trying to depend it as long as i know.
"In our times, the Yellow propaganda seems to have attracted a lot of followers without even realizing that Ninoy is no Mandela, Gandhi, Nehru, Tunku or Rizal. "
Aquino is no saint at all, like Binay, Enrile, etc. who go up against Marcos. But this is not all about color.. It is not about pro or anti. It is about truth.... Anyway di lang naman channel 2 ang station dito sa atin.. Meron pang iba na pwedeng source..
Truth? I asked if you had read the two books I've mentioned in my earlier posts, because if you'll just rely on write ups made by or sourced from American spies or propagandists who despise Asian leaders well I would try my best to understand where you're coming from sir.
Indeed maraming source pero kung hindi i-analyze ang motives ng source magiging malabnaw ang katotohanan. 8)
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lalim ng usapan dito ah...hehehe
i think the US intended to replace marcos eventually...marcos, like everybody else aged too, after all. besides, he was already peeing in his pants from lupus. the US had to look ahead.
ok...so marcos was this evil dictator and everything, right? he was replaced and then...? ano ba ginawa nung mga sumunod sa kanya? other than "nationalizing" everything in sight, may major accomplishments na ba ang 5 presidente after marcos?
during marcos' time, nobody needed to get a permit to rally. these days, i suppose protests are better organized -- may permiso pa nung ipinoprotesta mo eh di ba? yun eh kung papayagan ka.
are we freer? are we safer?
at 6 years old, i talked my parents into letting me commute to and from school on my own. they agreed. this was during martial law.
as parents or siblings, would you feel as safe? heck, kahit pa latak na lang ng impluwensya ni marcos ang inabutan mo, would you think the next generation would be better educated than you?
just asking.
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I was perusing the thread, I noticed someone mentioned the Rockefeller and Ford foundations?
I don't see how this is relevant. In any case both foundations also supported and funded Hitler. Also Bush' grandfather and we all know their government went to war against Germany. This doesn't really mean anything.
Corporations have their own goals, their own biases and agendas.
The United States is a military industrial complex.
Pera pera lang yan. Iraq, Iran, Israel (well may sarili silang agenda, and goes far beyond oil or politics)
Saksakan kasi ng kasinungalingan ang gobyerno ng America. Kaya when I watch the news or see some headlines, I take with a grain of salt. Gulf war, 9/11 etc. there is more to this than what the majority of the public knows about. Pero sometimes ignorance is a bliss.
Marcos was dying, what good is he to the United States when he is dead? Or worse eh gulay and someone else running the show without their blessing. So palit ulit ng bagong puppet. The Cold War was going on at the time, and of course they want to make sure they have their firm grip kung sino uupo dito.
The usual order of the day eh they just replace the top dog with one who they think will more likely to cooperate.
It's going on in Afghanistan, Iraq and among others na mas clandestine lang ang kanilang operation kaya di kasing obvious with those two countries mentioned.
Their agents will cause discontent, fund the opposition, undermine the economy and paint the leader in the worst light possible. Arab spring anyone?
People would just need to open their eyes. Your leaders come in package buy one take one pa kung minsan.
We were and is still under the United States sphere of influence. Of course they have a say who's in charge here. Anyone thinking otherwise is naive. This is how the world works.
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I dont know why you are really insisting about the CIA wanting to remove Marcos from Office..
Aside dun sa sinabi kong Rockfeller and Ford Foundation, dagdag ko pa ito.
1. In Sept., 1970 Imelda Marcos, then the First Lady of the Philippines, feared that domestic political opposition threatened plans by her husband, President Ferdinand Marcos, to revise the Philippine constitution and thus extend his term in office, which would otherwise lapse in 1973. When Mrs. Marcos flew to Washington, D.C. that Sept., she was able to obtain a private audience in the White House with U.S. President Richard Nixon.
The First Lady also summoned Director of Central Intelligence Richard Helms to her suite in the Madison Hotel - the presidential suite. The declassified State Department and White House documents reveal that in her Sept. 22 private meetings with Nixon and Helms, Mrs. Marcos asked for some $23 million in CIA covert funding. The money was to be used to buy political support to elect pro-Marcos delegates to the Constitutional Convention two months later.
Mrs. Marcos these days is perceived in the public mind as a comic figure, thanks to her famous love of expensive shoes and jewelry. But in her prime, the politically ambitious First Lady was considered a woman with an independent power base who was accordingly treated with respect by heads of state.
2. (According to Ongpin)
As the nation hung on a knife-edge on Feb. 22, 1986, President Ferdinand Marcos signed a deal with an emissary of US President Ronald Reagan to keep him in power that included removing his wife, Imelda, and loyal security chief Gen. Fabian Ver, according to former Trade Minister Roberto V. Ongpin.
Ongpin said he was with Reagan’s troubleshooter, Philip Habib, and US Ambassador Stephen Bosworth in the Palace on the day Ver aborted a coup attempt by Defense Minister Juan Ponce Enrile that prompted Enrile to defect. He was later joined in the breakaway by Lt. Gen. Fidel Ramos.
Bosworth and Habib outlined arrangements for Marcos to remain in power under five conditions, three of which were “nonnegotiable,” said Ongpin, who helped draw up a presidential decree to cover each of the conditions hammered out during weeklong negotiations with Habib and Bosworth. He said he reported every step of the way to Marcos, who approved all five conditions.
“No. 1, Fabian out. Out. No way. Out of any position in the military. And Eddie Ramos will take over. The Americans like Eddie Ramos,” Ongpin said.
“Secondly, Imelda, out. The Ministry of Human Settlements abolished. Her position as governor of Metro Manila abolished, she would have absolutely no position in the government. No. 3, a new Cabinet. They wanted a stronger Cabinet. And I had to talk to each one of them. It was tough. I cannot mention the names. You’ll be surprised at some of the names who agreed to become members of the new Cabinet. Maybe I can only mention one, because he has passed away, Enrique Zobel, as agriculture secretary,” Ongpin said.
Ongpin said Marcos vetted the candidates and approved the final list
3. when marcos was exiled in the philippines, former president ronald reagan told marcos he should live in the U.S,why would he support him if at that time many filipinos hated marcos while the philippines and the america were allies?
Answer. The relationship between President Marcos and President Reagan goes way beyond what we know. Yes, President Marcos was a known anti-communist and has done a lot to curb communism in the Philippines which, during those time was gaining support and spreading like wildfire not only in the country and other asian countries but also in the western and eastern countries. President Marcos' fight against communism in the Philippines was in consonance with the fight of USA against USSR, which, at that time was considered by the Reagan administration as the biggest threat of communism. Thus, the US considered the Philippines as it's only reliable ally in the East Asian region and President Marcos as the champion of democracy thereat.
Likewise, President Marcos was also rumored to have had helped President Reagan with his political ambitions when he provided campaign funds in the latter's US presidential bids. But what most of us did not know was that President Marcos did not only contributed in the campaign funds of President Reagan. The Philippines, through the generosity of President Marcos and unknown to many, sent tons of gold bars to the U.S.A. to help keep its falling/depleted economy afloat during the late 70's and early 80's. These tons of gold came from the Yamashita treasures that President Marcos allegedly unearthed, looted and some transported to and deposited in President Marcos' secret accounts in Switzerland.
Not only that, President Reagan was able to get some inspirations from President Marcos during their numerous conversations that influenced him on the way he ran US during his administration. It could be said that President Marcos was a mentor of President Reagan. Remember that during those times, President Marcos was even admired/awed by some leaders of the so-called rich countries. World leaders then lined up just to be able to visit and converse with President Marcos.
President Reagan considered President Marcos as his only best friend in the whole world. For President Reagan, his friendship with President Marcos is the most important thing in the whole world. It is far more important than the relationship between the Philippines and U.S.A. and what the Filipinos would say to him.
lets make things simple, rockfeller & ford foundations are helping us, so bakit nila aalisin si makoy? di ba pag umunlad tayo, si marcos ang magbebenefit ng lahat?
kung nagbebenefit sila, di ba dapat di nga nila alisin si makoy which is contradicting dun sa sinabi mo na gustong alisin ng CIA si makoy?
I can't see the logic na gusto mong alisin tapos tinutulungan mo..
Come on Sir Dimmu Borgir, don't be so naive, Marcos became a hard headed America's boy on his way to his second term, even if he benefited from American Foundation, these American foundations are not the bedrock of American foreign policy and interests. Meaning may kanya-kanya din itong interests na solely sa 2 foundations lang ang makikinabang.
The CIA acts on the greater American Policy Interests and of course not only from such foundations but of their own government. If you have critically analyzed documentary programs leading to the EDSA Elite's uprising the Opposition led by Ninoy's widow would be the best alternative in promoting US interests. Isn't it that corruption even worsened after the Marcoses were expelled at Malacanang? US Bases which served as dumping grounds for surplus US products and nuclear wastes are always the bargaining chip for the US.
The US had seen the ailing Marcos no longer as an America's boy as he used to be. Cory would be next on their experiment and she did good. Look at where we are now. Her son followed her footsteps.
Im not saying na walang ginawang maganda si marcos, im just making it clear to all ang mga ipinopost kong topic and trying to depend it as long as i know.
"In our times, the Yellow propaganda seems to have attracted a lot of followers without even realizing that Ninoy is no Mandela, Gandhi, Nehru, Tunku or Rizal. "
Aquino is no saint at all, like Binay, Enrile, etc. who go up against Marcos. But this is not all about color.. It is not about pro or anti. It is about truth.... Anyway di lang naman channel 2 ang station dito sa atin.. Meron pang iba na pwedeng source..
Truth? I asked if you had read the two books I've mentioned in my earlier posts, because if you'll just rely on write ups made by or sourced from American spies or propagandists who despise Asian leaders well I would try my best to understand where you're coming from sir.
Indeed maraming source pero kung hindi i-analyze ang motives ng source magiging malabnaw ang katotohanan. 8)
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When Marcos assumed presidency in 1966, the foreign debt of the Philippines stood below $1 billion. When he fled Malacañang in February 1986 during the first People Power, the country had a foreign debt of $28 billion.
When Marcos took office in 1966, we are just second from economy of Japan, nung umalis si marcos, mas masahol pa sa burma economy natin..
I cannot say na yung mga sumunod na leaders eh incompetent kaya lang wala tayong makuha na matino at di kurakot..
Pero unti unti umangat naman tayo, for now, may positive new na tayong mababasa. Magpatuloy lang ito, unti unti tayong aangat.
During martial law, our rights are suspended, magsalita ka laban sa government, may kalalagyan ka sigurado.
"during marcos' time, nobody needed to get a permit to rally. these days, i suppose protests are better organized -- may permiso pa nung ipinoprotesta mo eh di ba? yun eh kung papayagan ka.
During MArtial law, wala kang mababasa na masama laban kay marcos except sa mga Underground na newspaper.. Kaya, how will u know the real situation?
di tulad ngayon na malaya tayo..
lalim ng usapan dito ah...hehehe
i think the US intended to replace marcos eventually...marcos, like everybody else aged too, after all. besides, he was already peeing in his pants from lupus. the US had to look ahead.
ok...so marcos was this evil dictator and everything, right? he was replaced and then...? ano ba ginawa nung mga sumunod sa kanya? other than "nationalizing" everything in sight, may major accomplishments na ba ang 5 presidente after marcos?
during marcos' time, nobody needed to get a permit to rally. these days, i suppose protests are better organized -- may permiso pa nung ipinoprotesta mo eh di ba? yun eh kung papayagan ka.
are we freer? are we safer?
at 6 years old, i talked my parents into letting me commute to and from school on my own. they agreed. this was during martial law.
as parents or siblings, would you feel as safe? heck, kahit pa latak na lang ng impluwensya ni marcos ang inabutan mo, would you think the next generation would be better educated than you?
just asking.
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I dont know why you are really insisting about the CIA wanting to remove Marcos from Office..
Aside dun sa sinabi kong Rockfeller and Ford Foundation, dagdag ko pa ito.
1. In Sept., 1970 Imelda Marcos, then the First Lady of the Philippines, feared that domestic political opposition threatened plans by her husband, President Ferdinand Marcos, to revise the Philippine constitution and thus extend his term in office, which would otherwise lapse in 1973. When Mrs. Marcos flew to Washington, D.C. that Sept., she was able to obtain a private audience in the White House with U.S. President Richard Nixon.
The First Lady also summoned Director of Central Intelligence Richard Helms to her suite in the Madison Hotel - the presidential suite. The declassified State Department and White House documents reveal that in her Sept. 22 private meetings with Nixon and Helms, Mrs. Marcos asked for some $23 million in CIA covert funding. The money was to be used to buy political support to elect pro-Marcos delegates to the Constitutional Convention two months later.
Mrs. Marcos these days is perceived in the public mind as a comic figure, thanks to her famous love of expensive shoes and jewelry. But in her prime, the politically ambitious First Lady was considered a woman with an independent power base who was accordingly treated with respect by heads of state.
Just what I've thought your naivete continues to blur your insights. Would you really think that the CIA would really admit all the treacherous acts that they had done against Marcos? Plastikan lang yan sir, pulitika ika nga. The stated "unconfirmed" info you mentioned below only shows the deception of the Americans against Marcos.
2. (According to Ongpin)
As the nation hung on a knife-edge on Feb. 22, 1986, President Ferdinand Marcos signed a deal with an emissary of US President Ronald Reagan to keep him in power that included removing his wife, Imelda, and loyal security chief Gen. Fabian Ver, according to former Trade Minister Roberto V. Ongpin.
Ongpin said he was with Reagan’s troubleshooter, Philip Habib, and US Ambassador Stephen Bosworth in the Palace on the day Ver aborted a coup attempt by Defense Minister Juan Ponce Enrile that prompted Enrile to defect. He was later joined in the breakaway by Lt. Gen. Fidel Ramos.
Bosworth and Habib outlined arrangements for Marcos to remain in power under five conditions, three of which were “nonnegotiable,” said Ongpin, who helped draw up a presidential decree to cover each of the conditions hammered out during weeklong negotiations with Habib and Bosworth. He said he reported every step of the way to Marcos, who approved all five conditions.
“No. 1, Fabian out. Out. No way. Out of any position in the military. And Eddie Ramos will take over. The Americans like Eddie Ramos,” Ongpin said.
“Secondly, Imelda, out. The Ministry of Human Settlements abolished. Her position as governor of Metro Manila abolished, she would have absolutely no position in the government. No. 3, a new Cabinet. They wanted a stronger Cabinet. And I had to talk to each one of them. It was tough. I cannot mention the names. You’ll be surprised at some of the names who agreed to become members of the new Cabinet. Maybe I can only mention one, because he has passed away, Enrique Zobel, as agriculture secretary,” Ongpin said.
Ongpin said Marcos vetted the candidates and approved the final list
But here's something that almost caused me to fall in my chair. In answer to your 3rd argument, how could an Asian leader, more so being a Filipino president to influence American Foreign Policy? I admit Marcos is indeed brilliant and assertive, but I have serious doubts if he could really manipulate and handle a world leader in the person of Ronald Reagan. Do you really think the Americans are so stupid that they will allow foreign entities to influence their political scene more so their foreign policy. Nandun na tayo that Makoy is America's Boy, a trusted friend against the rising tide fo communism. But do you think Americans would make fools out of themselves of not knowing Marcos plans of biting them back?
Kaya lalong nagiging malabo ang pag-aaral ng Marcos era Philippines kung puro distorted data, rumors pa madalas ang pinapasok natin sa discussions. Come on stick to the issue and not just be a bigot. Lahat naman siguro dito mag-aagree na marami din naging mali si Marcos pero claiming once again na gusto mong lang mag-mulat ng iba? I do question it especially kung shady and unverified infos. Focus tayo dun sa debate issue, far out idea na po minsan. Yamashita Treasure? This is pure speculation! Come on, give us some slack will you? How true Reagan and Marcos are best of friends para lang masabi na hindi trinaydor ng mga Kano si Makoy? Sheesh kung yan ang excuse ng magiging bf ko, hiwalayan na lang kaya kami agad.. ???
3. when marcos was exiled in the philippines, former president ronald reagan told marcos he should live in the U.S,why would he support him if at that time many filipinos hated marcos while the philippines and the america were allies?
Answer. The relationship between President Marcos and President Reagan goes way beyond what we know. Yes, President Marcos was a known anti-communist and has done a lot to curb communism in the Philippines which, during those time was gaining support and spreading like wildfire not only in the country and other asian countries but also in the western and eastern countries. President Marcos' fight against communism in the Philippines was in consonance with the fight of USA against USSR, which, at that time was considered by the Reagan administration as the biggest threat of communism. Thus, the US considered the Philippines as it's only reliable ally in the East Asian region and President Marcos as the champion of democracy thereat.
Likewise, President Marcos was also rumored to have had helped President Reagan with his political ambitions when he provided campaign funds in the latter's US presidential bids. But what most of us did not know was that President Marcos did not only contributed in the campaign funds of President Reagan. The Philippines, through the generosity of President Marcos and unknown to many, sent tons of gold bars to the U.S.A. to help keep its falling/depleted economy afloat during the late 70's and early 80's. These tons of gold came from the Yamashita treasures that President Marcos allegedly unearthed, looted and some transported to and deposited in President Marcos' secret accounts in Switzerland.
Not only that, President Reagan was able to get some inspirations from President Marcos during their numerous conversations that influenced him on the way he ran US during his administration. It could be said that President Marcos was a mentor of President Reagan. Remember that during those times, President Marcos was even admired/awed by some leaders of the so-called rich countries. World leaders then lined up just to be able to visit and converse with President Marcos.
President Reagan considered President Marcos as his only best friend in the whole world. For President Reagan, his friendship with President Marcos is the most important thing in the whole world. It is far more important than the relationship between the Philippines and U.S.A. and what the Filipinos would say to him.
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Dimmu.. some of what you have said are so far fetched. In anycase, I will just agree to disagree with you.
By the way, if you really believed that the CIA is really under the thumbs of the POTUS and the POTUS a 4 year term ordinary politician knows and briefed about everything you might be in for some surprise.
It's the old case of not letting the right hand know, what the left hand is doing.
In some circles, it is believed that the CIA was also involved in the assasination of president JFK, along with the mossad.
Apparently he was pissed off about them doing deals, making decisions and sanctioning assasinations without his approval.
JFK hated that organisation, and was even toying with the notion of disbanding it. Look where it has landed him.
Marcos, along with most lesser devolped country leaders are pawns to these guys. Same thing is happening now.
If Cory presidency was not sanctioned by the US, I can tell you it would not last a week.
Anyway carry on.
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first and foremost lets make it clear..
Lets' stick to the issue? Can't you remember?
ikaw yung nagdala ng issue dito about CIA.. I don't know kung anong basis mo dito? Im just answering it by posting articles coming from different sources to counter your claim..
Im not even used my personal opinion for doing that because like you, i dont have a personal knowledge about it. But at least it my capacity, im relying not just on one book or article to defend my point..
Just what I've thought your naivete continues to blur your insights. Would you really think that the CIA would really admit all the treacherous acts that they had done against Marcos? Plastikan lang yan sir, pulitika ika nga. The stated "unconfirmed" info you mentioned below only shows the deception of the Americans against Marcos.
Personal opinion, for me, is not agreeable since we are not the likes of Ongpin or Ver that have personal knowledge about Marcos. I think
it is not proper to used personal opinion here since we are talking about Marcos not about ourselves..
But as you see, I posted also some interview of Mr. Ongpin about Marcos about what happened during the last days of Marcos in malacañang.
In my third reasoning, can't you see the word "rumored" ?
It's the same like CIA who killed Marcos, its all about rumors but if you have the knowledge, share it to me..
Ongpin explanation is better than you saying CIA wants Cory to be the best alternative in promoting US interests here in country..
I dont know if it's just personal opinion or at least you have a knowledge to support that claim...
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The truth is I dont' care about who killed Marcos..
As long as you can prove your claim.. Then go on..
Do you have personal knowledge about what are you posting?
Or just analyzing and using your own conclusion?
some of what you have said are so far fetched. In anycase, I will just agree to disagree with you.
if that's the case, we are the same...
Dimmu.. some of what you have said are so far fetched. In anycase, I will just agree to disagree with you.
By the way, if you really believed that the CIA is really under the thumbs of the POTUS and the POTUS a 4 year term ordinary politician knows and briefed about everything you might be in for some surprise.
It's the old case of not letting the right hand know, what the left hand is doing.
In some circles, it is believed that the CIA was also involved in the assasination of president JFK, along with the mossad.
Apparently he was pissed off about them doing deals, making decisions and sanctioning assasinations without his approval.
JFK hated that organisation, and was even toying with the notion of disbanding it. Look where it has landed him.
Marcos, along with most lesser devolped country leaders are pawns to these guys. Same thing is happening now.
If Cory presidency was not sanctioned by the US, I can tell you it would not last a week.
Anyway carry on.
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Lets' stick to the issue? Can't you remember?
ikaw yung nagdala ng issue dito about CIA.. I don't know kung anong basis mo dito? Im just answering it by posting articles coming from different sources to counter your claim..
Im not even used my personal opinion for doing that because like you, i dont have a personal knowledge about it. But at least it my capacity, im relying not just on one book or article to defend my point..
Personal opinion, for me, is not agreeable since we are not the likes of Ongpin or Ver that have personal knowledge about Marcos. I think
it is not proper to used personal opinion here since we are talking about Marcos not about ourselves..
But as you see, I posted also some interview of Mr. Ongpin about Marcos about what happened during the last days of Marcos in malacañang.
In my third reasoning, can't you see the word "rumored" ?
It's the same like CIA who killed Marcos, its all about rumors but if you have the knowledge, share it to me..
Ongpin explanation is better than you saying CIA wants Cory to be the best alternative in promoting US interests here in country..
I dont know if it's just personal opinion or at least you have a knowledge to support that claim...
That's too Lame and what a shame. You posted leaked articles from wikileaks without even realizing that such leaked files tells a lot of CIA's misadventures from countries like us. Sana nilubos lubos mo na yung pag lift mo ng info dun sa initial posting mo about Marcos from Wikileaks para mabasa mo yung pinag-gagawa nila even before the Marcos era.
The massive infos you've posted and lifted from different sources doesn't impress me, does it prove a point?
You're too proud of Ongpin's interview? What if the guy's a turncoat? Maligning his former boss because he knew very well that no matter how much he demonizes Makoy, the dead dictator can't drag his crony right from his resting place in Ilocos.
Read more sir! I advise pati yung book ni Marcos about Democratic Revolution and the last two books that I asked you to consider.
Sige Sir Maya Po ulit.. I'm cooking lunch..don't wanna spoil it. 8)
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I really don't care about CIA. Ikaw nga nagbibigay ng personal opinion mo about CIA killing Marcos, hindi ba ako pwedeng magbigay ng explanation bakit di ako naniniwala sa sinabi mo? It's so happened na nagbanggit ka about CIA, kung di ka naman nagbanggit di ko naman sasagutin.. Can't u get the point?
I've posted article to show na di ko naman personal idea lang ang mga sinasabi, di ako nagpost para iimpress ka.. Sabi ko nga di ako gumagamit ng personal idea sa argumento ko.. Di ako gumagawa ng mga kwento.
Mahirap makipagdebate sa taong personal opinion ang gamit.. Gumagawa ka ng lang sarili mong conclusion.. And i must admit, di ako mananalo sayo...
"Sabi nga ng teacher ko, lahat tayo ay tama sa sariling opinyon natin so paano ko sasabihing mali ka eh puro opinion lang ang ginagamit mo.."
US wants Cory to replace Marcos..
CIA removing Marcos from Office, show any proof?
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Nagset pala ang US ng 5 conditions para manatili si marcos. Does it matter?
What's maligning here? Alam naman natin na America's Boy si Marcos, di ba sa Hawaii nga siya namatay.. Anong masama sa sinabi ni Ongpin? Ikaw lang ata ang namalign dito kasi contradicting ito sa ginawa mong kwento na gustong "iover throw ng US si marcos.. What the heck.................
Di ko maiwasang mapa smile... hehehehehe
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
You're too proud of Ongpin's interview? What if the guy's a turncoat? Maligning his former boss because he knew very well that no matter how much he demonizes Makoy, the dead dictator can't drag his crony right from his resting place in Ilocos.
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i agree. what the heck...!!???
gulo ng quotes at opinions. di ko na gets who is saying what about what was said by whom.
pasensya na po. slow lang.
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I really don't care about CIA. Ikaw nga nagbibigay ng personal opinion mo about CIA killing Marcos, hindi ba ako pwedeng magbigay ng explanation bakit di ako naniniwala sa sinabi mo? It's so happened na nagbanggit ka about CIA, kung di ka naman nagbanggit di ko naman sasagutin.. Can't u get the point?
Sheesh, hindi po ako si Marcos sir na pagbabawalan ka sa mga post mo dito sir, i'm just trying to refute your posts about your claims on Marcos pertaining with your use of wikileaks leaked infos. Kaya nga ang sabi ko, basahin mo yung books ni Cecilio Arillo - A Country Imperiled and Greed and Betrayal. These are books published in the US. It discusses all the queries that we've been debating here. CIA? you lifted posts from wikileaks right? Hindi mo ba alam kung san nahack ni Julian Assange yung mga files na yan? Hindi po ba sa CIA kaya nga katakot takot na kaso at pananakot ang kinakaharap ngayon ni Assange (Founder ng Wikileaks) from the US.
I've posted article to show na di ko naman personal idea lang ang mga sinasabi, di ako nagpost para iimpress ka.. Sabi ko nga di ako gumagamit ng personal idea sa argumento ko.. Di ako gumagawa ng mga kwento.
That's why next time if you'll be posting, substantiate it with analysis. Whether or not its an opinion or not, try analyzing the motives and the logic behind the articles your posting before you howl to the entire world na ginagawa mo lang yun para sa mga darating na henerasyon. Right? kasi pag ganun mas lalo lang na nadi-distort ang kasaysayan. Sir Dimmu Borgir, this just a clash of ideas, wag ka sanang mapikon, i'm an avid student of history and politics, kahit babae ako, i'm very much open to be enlightened. Basagan lang po ng teorya ika nga.
Mahirap makipagdebate sa taong personal opinion ang gamit.. Gumagawa ka ng lang sarili mong conclusion.. And i must admit, di ako mananalo sayo...
"Sabi nga ng teacher ko, lahat tayo ay tama sa sariling opinyon natin so paano ko sasabihing mali ka eh puro opinion lang ang ginagamit mo.."
My thoughts may border on opinions and facts, but you have given me your wikileaks post as my initial point of reference from there i just substantiate it sir. Why is this a contest? We're just debating sir, in any debate wala naman nananalo. Like what I've said it's just a pure clash of ideas.
US wants Cory to replace Marcos..
CIA removing Marcos from Office, show any proof?
I don't know if you have a thick skull or what, but anyways, i'm not in the habit of posting entire articles and not substantiating it but here perhaps these links will do, have the pleasure too of "analyzing" them for cheese sake.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/secretgoldtreaty/trilat_appendix1.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/secretgoldtreaty/trilat_appendix1.htm)
http://www.swans.com/library/art17/barker79.html (http://www.swans.com/library/art17/barker79.html)
tapos pakibasa na rin Stanley Karnow's "In our image, America's Empire in the Philippines" maliliwanagan ka Sir. :)
And then para makabasa ka rin ng mga "intelligence operations-related articles" here visit this sir para di puro wikileaks lang:
http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1986/eirv13n29-19860725/index.html
And one last thing, kindly ask your teacher - if ever all opinions are indeed correct. what separates it from the wrong ones? Tell your teacher too that as Harlan Ellison said [Eveyone's]".. not entitled to your opinion. [Everyone's] .. entitled to [an] informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” -(inside brackets are mine, i substituted the word "You")
8)
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Sige na ate, di na ako makikipagtalo sayo... Sayang yung article mo na niresearch mo di ko na binasa..
Nawala na yung gana kong makipagdebate sayo nung mapatawa mo ako.. Imagination na kasi ang ginagamit mo pati si Ongpin nagawan mo na ng kwentong minamalign si Marcos..
Lawak ng imagination mo ate. .......
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
hehehehehe..
PS.. High Blood ka ata kay Assange pero ito talaga ang source nyan "Gale Encyclopedia of Biography: Ferdinand Marcos".
Yung iba dito, Britannica Concise Encyclopedia,
Oxford Dictionary of Political Biography,
and Columbia Encyclopedia" .. Konting konti lang dyan ang wikileaks..
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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You’re entitled to your own opinions but you’re not entitled to your own facts.
Explanation: It means that facts are supported by evidence and agreed upon by the mass population. Opinions obviously don't require evidence. A person does not have to believe humans are the cause of global warming, but it is a fact that global warming is in large part caused by human-related activity.
Example: Therefore, it is a fact that Marcos stole billion of pesos from us, that he was a corrupt politician but it was your opinion that CIA killed Marcos..
And one last thing, kindly ask your teacher - if ever all opinions are indeed correct. what separates it from the wrong ones? Tell your teacher too that as Harlan Ellison said [Eveyone's]".. not entitled to your opinion. [Everyone's] .. entitled to [an] informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”
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Example: Therefore, it is a fact that Marcos stole billion of pesos from us, that he was a corrupt politician but it was your opinion that CIA killed Marcos..
You really have a thick skull, i didn't infer that Makoy was killed by the CIA, what i was explaining that the downfall of Marcos was caused by the CIA.
And stop defining terms for it doesn't even build your case. Ni hindi ka nga maka-build ng tamang argumento eh..always hiding behind the bush..You celebrate for using "Gale Encyclopedia of Biography: Ferdinand Marcos", Britannica Concise Encyclopedia,Oxford Dictionary of Political Biography,
and Columbia Encyclopedia" .. and konting wikileaks.. ok sige pakilagyan mo nga ng konteksto sir Dimmu Borgir.
Explanation: It means that facts are supported by evidence and agreed upon by the mass population. Opinions obviously don't require evidence. A person does not have to believe humans are the cause of global warming, but it is a fact that global warming is in large part caused by human-related activity.
Oh thanks for interpreting Harlan Ellison's quote, kung maintindihan nya interpretation mo, sasabihin nya nakakabastos at nakakabaog ang pamamaraan ng interpretasyon mo ng mga sinabi nya.
OMG..tsk tsk 8)
And Dimmu Borgir a bigot doesn't have the right to claim it's his noble right to enlighten the world if his thoughts are more blind than his eyes could see! ;)
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typo error ate.. downfall pala hindi killed...
tigas din ng ulo mo. pinagpipilitan mo ang opinyon mong mali...
Dun tayo sa main topic, ano bang mali dun at nagagalit ka. Kesehodang kahit kanino pa yan galing eh facts naman, anong masama dun?
Wag ka lang gagamit ng imagination saka sarili mong kwento para naman may pinupuntahan ang usapan natin.
Ano bang pinupublish ng wikileaks in the first place?
di ba mga sensitive, classified articles..
ngayun meron ba silang pinublish na auto biography ng isang tao?
This is facts, bakit ito ipapublish ng wikileaks in the first place?
And finally this is not my personal thoughts.. Sabi ko nga di ako gumagawa ng kwento katulad mo...
You’re entitled to your own opinions but you’re not entitled to your own facts.
Oh thanks for interpreting Harlan Ellison's quote
Hindi yan interpretation nung qoutes ni Harlan. Sagot ko lang yan dito... parang di ka ata nakakarelate sa mga post ko...
And one last thing, kindly ask your teacher - if ever all opinions are indeed correct. what separates it from the wrong ones?
Kaya nga nasabi kong facts vs opinion ang usapan nating ito...
and ur the winner based on my belief that tama tayo sa lahat ng opinyon natin pero pag facts na, magtatalo tayo
ulit..
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We should refrain from being a troll while debating or having our ideas refuted by someone. Kay ganda na ng palitan tapos maiuuwi lang sa troll, spam at emoticons? *sigh* a bit disappointed though.
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We should refrain from being a troll while debating or having our ideas refuted by someone. Kay ganda na ng palitan tapos maiuuwi lang sa troll, spam at emoticons? *sigh* a bit disappointed though.
+1
ganda ng palitan ng facts between [user]yummyyana[/user] at [user] Dimmu Borgir[/user].. Kala ko magpapatuloy pa ang palitan ng argument but it seems the other end already raised a white flag.
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typo error ate.. downfall pala hindi killed...
Alright apology accepted..
tigas din ng ulo mo. pinagpipilitan mo ang opinyon mong mali...
What's wrong with my insights? You continued posting articles without even substantiating it with analysis.
Dun tayo sa main topic, ano bang mali dun at nagagalit ka. Kesehodang kahit kanino pa yan galing eh facts naman, anong masama dun?
I'm not the one going off-topic. I was refuting your arguments one by one. Wala ka pa ngang nasalag ni isa eh. Far out idea lagi.
Wag ka lang gagamit ng imagination saka sarili mong kwento para naman may pinupuntahan ang usapan natin.
Why fear imagination in the first place, di ka ba sentient being? As far as I know, para maging maayos ang pag-aanalysis sa logic pumapasok ang imagination.
Allow me to educate and enlighten you sir, for i really don't have any idea what you have been sniffing nowadays especially during your logic class (if ever you have taken one)
In Logic di po ba, the first step in developing our thoughts or how our mind works is for you to have a simple apprehension of things in that manner we use our senses and we imagine. The outcome out of what we have abstracted from our "imagination" is we develop IDEAS. Second the moment we have an idea, we try to test those ideas either we denote or connote, then we have a JUDGMENT Sir Dimmu Borgir, afterwards that leads to analysis to prove or disprove the idea..this is what we call "REASONING". And the debated issues would always be borne from "Inferences".
Alriiiiiiigt Sirs and Madame, forgive me for straying a bit from the main issue but it seems the thread starter has a lot to answer in terms of his "Reasoning Prowess" Sige balik tayo..
First I won't apologize sabi ko nga if my arguments borders from facts or opinions why? Kasi yung thread starter using "encyclopedias" and "wikileaks" as his sources can not even muster or substantiate such articles using his own analysis.
I just responded based on the lack of judgement of the thread starter. To claim that he wants to inform everyone borders misinforming. The writers of the encyclopedia would always have biased against the "bad rulers" of this world. This practice has been enduring since the primacy of Western Media and Propaganda has always been the main tool of discrediting leaders hated and targeted by the west as stated in the book "Propaganda and Persuasion" by Jowett and O'Donnell.
So again, although I'm not questioning the facts rendered by Dimmu Borgi's sources but how would he substantiate it with reasoning? Ni hindi nga maipaliwanag ang power dynamics between the Philippines and the US. Especially US covert ops. I have presented my sources. I actually asked Sir Dimmu Borgi to read books that will be helpful in his quest of truly informing everyone and just to check the validity of those facts that he sourced from encyclopedias.
Ano bang pinupublish ng wikileaks in the first place?
di ba mga sensitive, classified articles..
ngayun meron ba silang pinublish na auto biography ng isang tao?
This is facts, bakit ito ipapublish ng wikileaks in the first place?
Indeed correct, but as I have asked way back, were you able to read on CIA's involvement in our country for the last century until the Marcos ouster except the one that you posted.
I don't care whatever motives Mr.Assange had for continuing leaking infos, whether it's for personal gratification, change the global order of things, money, blackmailing, misinforming or just the noble deed of letting all of us know the secrets of our planet
But I'm pretty sure, kahit hindi inilabas ni Assange yan, may mga authors/scholars/researchers and pundits na naglabas ng kanya kanyang alam tungkol sa US-CIA involvement in Marcos ouster. I posted yesterday links which everyone can visit. Nandun din sir Dimmu yung sagot sa tanong mo na kung true or false ba na ang nasa likod sa pagpapatalsik kay Marcos ay mga kano. It's just a matter of using your own analysis.
But instead of crystallizing our debate here, you just ignored the chance of an informed debate. Your main argument was always to attack me that i'm just giving mere opinions.
You said your teacher prize the preciousness of opinions greatly? Why broke her golden rule about opinions. You could simply trash opinions but hopefully not an informed one. Yun ang context at substance ng quote ni Harlan Ellison.
That's my way of driving my argument home. Gamit nga tayo ng gamit ng facts pero how are we going to put a great weight on it kung hindi maayos sa reasoning.
And finally this is not my personal thoughts.. Sabi ko nga di ako gumagawa ng kwento katulad mo...
Storytelling? If that is tantamount to insights and well informed opinion. I'll take it as a compliment sir Dimmu Borgir. But if just facts lifted from biased sources and that won't even hold water in arguments, please spare me. Shame on this act.
Kaya nga nasabi kong facts vs opinion ang usapan nating ito...
Let just allow the other forumers to decide on this..
and ur the winner based on my belief that tama tayo sa lahat ng opinyon natin pero pag facts na, magtatalo tayo
ulit..
Naaaaah.. whether it's a fact or opinion, it all boils from the idea of persuasion, judgment and reasoning. I rest my case.
Sir Charliehouse, pardon us ni Dimmu Borgir kung ganito kinahitnan ng debate. He's a worthy forumer here. Di naman din trolling or spamming, kasi everything is connected naman sa pinaguusapan, lumilihis lang minsan pero manageable naman po.
Speaking of emoticons, I pasensya na poh. Very animated lang ako talaga. Di naman kami nag-aaway or nagmumurahan ni Sir Dimmu Borgir. I believe he's just being competitive, kainitan ng debate ika nga.
Nothing to be worried about.
Thanks sa mga nagbasa at nagparticipate (Sir Fayt, Sir Primus, Ms. XXXholic Rai, atbp.) ng palitan namin ni Sir Dimmu Borgir. Sa sunod ulit kung meron pa. hahaha!
Sir Dimmu Borgir peace tayo ha? Aaminin ko umiiral lang pagiging tibak ko. But I'm not taking it against anyone here kung may galit kayo sa mga Aktibista, basagan lang ng teorya yan. :) hihihihi
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sa totoo lang po hirap akong sundan at intindihin ang mga naganap na palitan nina yummy at dimmu.
ano bang facts ang pinaguusapan ninyo about marcos? sa pagkakaintindi ko kasi, halos bawat aspeto ng buhay ni marcos ay puno ng kuwestiyon at spekulasyon. daming haka-haka at opinyon sa tunay na nangyari nung nakulong sya, nung naging abogado, nung panahon ng hapon, etc.
sa akin kasi, ang relevant or important facts o tiyak lang kay marcos ay iilang bagay lang tulad ng sya ay pilipino, naging senador, naging presidente, napilitang umalis at manirahan sa hawaii, namatay.
not only are these so-called facts limited, they are practically broad facts as well. what do i mean, right? broad in the sense na hindi naman binanggit halimbawa ang detalye o uri man ng presidency nya.
halimbawa: marcos was a dictator during his presidency. to me, this isn't a fact. this is, at best, a majority opinion -- perhaps, at most, just a popular opinion. again, not fact. personally, naniniwala akong kahit pa lahat ng tao sa buong mundo at lahat ng libro, magasin, peryodiko at anopamang sulatin ang ilathala ang magsabi na "diktador" si marcos ay hindi mangangahulugang iyon na ang katotohanan o katiyakan o fact.
you may all disagree with me, of course, but you would all just be giving your opinion regarding my opinion. and besides, as stated, sample lang yan.
my point? wikileaks, encyclopedias, other books and websites may contain several claims and stories. but that would be all they would or could be -- claims and stories -- until or unless their veracity could be proven.
in discussions like this, i expect opinions -- and stories even -- with some facts helping along the way.
extreme or overly expressed vehemence over unverified stories and claims, written or said by whomever, wherever tend to overwhelm and encumber my teeny brain and teenier attention span. relax lang mga dude. mahirap at magulong pagtalunan ang facts kung hindi science at math. mahirap maging exact lalo na at history ang topic.
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Dimmu don't take this the wrong way ano, I'm sure may knowledge ka sa ibang bagay. May mga post ka nga sa ibang thread na tugma din sa pagkaintindi ko.
I was about to withdraw from this thread because it's becoming silly.
In no way I am attacking you personally but I couldn't help but respond when you insulted my intelligence by asking me if personal knowledge ko ba ito in a condescending manner.
Do you even realize how utterly asinine and ridiculous your post sounds right now?Personal knowledge? Why my friend, lahat ba ng pinag popost mo dito eh personal knowledge mo?
Meron kang thread if I remember correctly about church corruption etc. Why? Ikaw ba nangolekta ng pera? How about your thread na mark of the beast, bakit may marka ka na? Minarkahan ka na ba personally? I suppose ang kulay ng buhay mo kung lahat ng pinag popost mo dito eh personal knowledge mo.
Pag sayo nanggaling eh fact, pero pag sa iba eh personal opinion?
You best be careful with your old style tactics, hindi sa lahat uubra yan.
Besides, I was reading the thread and though Yana and I do not see eye to eye when it comes to the ideology of communism, I do admire her knowledge. Eh ikaw panay ka google and copy paste. Do you even know what you're talking about?
Lahat naman tayo can go to google and find articles written by some clown to justify our position. Ang pinag uusapan dito is our own very understanding of history. Hindi our own personal bias and agenda.
She posted an article for you to read pero you quickly shot it down, ni hindi mo kamo binasa whilst we gave you the courtesy of reading and understanding what you had to say.
Meron nag reply dito na pro marcos if tama pagka alala ko he said matalino siya and na impluwensiyahan lang, pero ambilis mo tawagin ignorant just because taliwas sa idea mong noynoy ass kissing. Really pal?
Meron isa, personal knowledge nya nung martial law na he felt safer, what did you do? You also shot it down. Aba, may penchant karin pala sa diktaduria ano?
You're being intellectually dishonest. And you're just talking for the sake of talking. Forum ito parekoy, exchange dapat ito ng idea. Kahit naman ako tinatanggap ko pag meron akong hindi alam, pero to scour the internet and look for something that will substantiate my ludicrous claims? Sounds like mental masturbation to me. Isn't that counter-productive kung ang gusto mo eh fair and meaningful discussion?
Anyway good luck with your "open minded post" and your crusade to "enlighten" the next generation. You're pedantry is amusing.
To Yanna: of course we will participate sa thread, basta we find it interesting and may natututunan din kami sa discussion. I only know of a handful of people who have even heard of Assange and his plight. I'm still partial to what his real goal is. Some points to him as a freedom fighter, pero some as a disinformation agent. Anyway good job. See you around kiddo.
Edit: Spelling error.
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To end this debate.. Ito lang yung simpleng reason ko na ipinagpipilitan ko:
"You’re entitled to your own opinions but you’re not entitled to your own facts. "
Explanation: It means that facts are supported by evidence and agreed upon by the mass population. Opinions obviously don't require evidence. A person does not have to believe humans are the cause of global warming, but it is a fact that global warming is in large part caused by human-related activity.
Dun sa una kong post about Marcos para sa akin eh facts yun kasi biography nya yun at makikita mo rin naman yun sa mga articles/ books etc..
Economy during Marcos is a facts also since ito naman talaga yung data.
Sa BNPP, is a fact also for me..
Nagkagulo lang tau about CIA na for me is pure opinion since wala namang data na nagsusupport nun or evidence man lang..
Kapareho din yun ng sinasabi ng iba na si marcos ang nagpapatay kay Ninoy..
It's pure analysis & opinion..
So using my argument, tama ka sa opinyon mo pero wag mong sabihin sa akin na yun na ang totoo dahil hindi yun ang facts...
Di naman napatunayan na CIA nga ang nasa likod ng pagpapatalsik kay Makoy..
@Sir Primus, dun pa lang sa una, sinasabi ko na di ko personal opinion ang mga argumento ko dito.. Article ito from different sources..
Clear ito sa una pa lang.
Don't bring the topic about communism since magkaiba naman sila. Dun eh personal opinion ang sinasabi ko dito eh hindi..
You're being intellectually dishonest. And you're just talking for the sake of talking. Forum ito parekoy, exchange dapat ito ng idea. Kahit naman ako tinatanggap ko pag meron akong hindi alam, pero to scour the internet and look for something that will substantiate my ludicrous claims?
Again my reasoning about facts and opinion will speak for itself...
Meron nag reply dito na pro marcos if tama pagka alala ko he said matalino siya and na impluwensiyahan lang, pero ambilis mo tawagin ignorant just because taliwas sa idea mong noynoy ass kissing. Really pal?
I am not pro Noynoy. Magkontra ka lang kay marcos, pro aquino ka na, i can't understand this reasoning and i'm not expected na makikita ko rin ito sayo. Matalino sya, it's a fact pero yung naimpluwensyahan sya, i strongly disagree...
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dimmu -- ikaw na rin ang nagsabi na we are all entitled to our own opinions but we are not entitled to our own facts. to say that facts are based on evidence and the agreement of the masses is just wrong. remember galileo please.
also, facts can, may and have been twisted throughout history to suit or justify many acts and situations. imagine de-emphasizing marcos' culpability in ninoy's assassination and then proving doubtlessly that somebody else was responsible -- pano na ang edsa? pano na ang pagupo ni cory?
eto pa. if we are to believe everything we've heard and seen in movies and books about the cia and other james bond-like agency people, would not the absence of evidence be evidence as well?
im not claiming anything here except that your determination of facts is wrong. the opinion or concurrence of the masses is not necessary.
should every person in the planet ever come to believe that the sun is black and cold with the evidence of night, would the sun even blink?
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To end this debate.. Ito lang yung simpleng reason ko na ipinagpipilitan ko:
"You’re entitled to your own opinions but you’re not entitled to your own facts. "
Explanation: It means that facts are supported by evidence and agreed upon by the mass population. Opinions obviously don't require evidence. A person does not have to believe humans are the cause of global warming, but it is a fact that global warming is in large part caused by human-related activity.
Dun sa una kong post about Marcos para sa akin eh facts yun kasi biography nya yun at makikita mo rin naman yun sa mga articles/ books etc..
Economy during Marcos is a facts also since ito naman talaga yung data.
Sa BNPP, is a fact also for me..
Nagkagulo lang tau about CIA na for me is pure opinion since wala namang data na nagsusupport nun or evidence man lang..
Kapareho din yun ng sinasabi ng iba na si marcos ang nagpapatay kay Ninoy..
It's pure analysis & opinion..
So using my argument, tama ka sa opinyon mo pero wag mong sabihin sa akin na yun na ang totoo dahil hindi yun ang facts...
Di naman napatunayan na CIA nga ang nasa likod ng pagpapatalsik kay Makoy..
@Sir Primus, dun pa lang sa una, sinasabi ko na di ko personal opinion ang mga argumento ko dito.. Article ito from different sources..
Clear ito sa una pa lang.
Don't bring the topic about communism since magkaiba naman sila. Dun eh personal opinion ang sinasabi ko dito eh hindi..
You're being intellectually dishonest. And you're just talking for the sake of talking. Forum ito parekoy, exchange dapat ito ng idea. Kahit naman ako tinatanggap ko pag meron akong hindi alam, pero to scour the internet and look for something that will substantiate my ludicrous claims?
Again my reasoning about facts and opinion will speak for itself...
Meron nag reply dito na pro marcos if tama pagka alala ko he said matalino siya and na impluwensiyahan lang, pero ambilis mo tawagin ignorant just because taliwas sa idea mong noynoy ass kissing. Really pal?
I am not pro Noynoy. Magkontra ka lang kay marcos, pro aquino ka na, i can't understand this reasoning and i'm not expected na makikita ko rin ito sayo. Matalino sya, it's a fact pero yung naimpluwensyahan sya, i strongly disagree...
Fair enough. It is not my intention na hiyain ka or make you look bad. That is not my way.
I also dislike those pompous pedants and their idiotic fans anyway. We are all friends here. I was about to walk away from this thread and let you have your field day but I was just surprised when you asked if I had personal experience about it in what sounds like a condescending manner.
I felt the question was unfair and does not add to the discussion. After all we are just students of history, not (at least not yet) a participant in it.
You can be pro Noynoy or not it's your call and I respect that.
I may not agree with what you have to say but I would rather you have the right to say it. To repeat from my tounge the words of Voltaire.
On a side note, I also don't think there is anyone else to blame pag dating sa kurakot ni apo andy. Meron talaga siyang kalokohan no doubt about it. Na aannoy lang ako pag ibinibintang kay marcos lahat ng kahirapan ng pilipinas, and ginagawang palusot ng mga incompetent, and sometimes equally corrupt oh mas malala pa na administrations.
Ang mga tao naman binibili ng binibili. Kaya wala ng pagbabago. Tapos mag rereklamo bakit mahirap ang bansa. Eh binuto mo eh? Nag padala ka sa sayaw at kindat eh.
Anyway there will be threads where we will be on the same side, meron din on the opposite. It doesn't matter as long as we all walk away from it civil and with an increased understanding or learning. There are no winners or losers here. Anyone who thinks that way have much to room to grow. See you around my friend.
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sir, medyo di ako nakarelate dito..
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
dimmu -- ikaw na rin ang nagsabi na we are all entitled to our own opinions but we are not entitled to our own facts. to say that facts are based on evidence and the agreement of the masses is just wrong. remember galileo please.
also, facts can, may and have been twisted throughout history to suit or justify many acts and situations. imagine de-emphasizing marcos' culpability in ninoy's assassination and then proving doubtlessly that somebody else was responsible -- pano na ang edsa? pano na ang pagupo ni cory?
eto pa. if we are to believe everything we've heard and seen in movies and books about the cia and other james bond-like agency people, would not the absence of evidence be evidence as well?
im not claiming anything here except that your determination of facts is wrong. the opinion or concurrence of the masses is not necessary.
should every person in the planet ever come to believe that the sun is black and cold with the evidence of night, would the sun even blink?
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@Primus,
Corruption is a 2 way street. Totoo may kasalanan si Makoy pero di naman lahat kasalanan niya. Tayo rin may parte din tayo. At lalo na yung mga elected leaders natin.
Our laws have so many flaws kaya wala na tayong makuhang leader na as intelligent ni Makoy pero malinis ang hangarin katulad ni Cory.
Kung si Marcos ay umalis at di nag declare ng Martial Law, siya ay masasabi kong isa sa the best president ng bansa.
Hindi to nangyari at nakakalungkot isipin na after ng mga ginawa niya eh ginoglorify ng iba si Marcos at binabaliktad ang history.. I will not react kung totoo yung mga article pero karamihan eh misleading..
Im not pro or anti. I'm for the truth. The truth shall prevail.
Ok see you on Creation or Evolution Thread...
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sir, medyo di ako nakarelate dito..
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
i know. and that is my point.
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mas lalo akong di nakarelate dito..
ano ba sir yung sinasabi mo para masagot kita..
di ko talaga gets yung unang comment mo..
sensya ka na..
i know. and that is my point.
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mas lalo akong di nakarelate dito..
ano ba sir yung sinasabi mo para masagot kita..
di ko talaga gets yung unang comment mo..
sensya ka na..
facts are facts po regardless of whether anyone or everyone agrees, accepts, believes or not.
fact: marcos was the president of the philippines. this is a true and undeniable fact not because we all know it, believe it, accept it or agree to it being a fact or the truth. this fact is not subject to a person's or people's whim or will.
sabi mo kasi ebidensya at pagtanggap ng nakararaming tao ang batayan ng katotohanan o facts. i mentioned galileo kasi he was condemned by the catholic church. at that time, the mass population would have agreed with the catholic church rather than with galileo who stated that the planets revolved around the sun. mali po ang simbahan kahit pa naniwala ang karamihan o lahat ng mga tao sa sinabi ng simbahan noon. sa totoo lang din naman, kahit pa naniwala at kumampi ang lahat ng mga tao kay galileo imbes na sa simbahan, hindi pa rin makakaapekto iyon sa katotohanan na umiikot ang mundo sa araw and not the other way around.
ulit: walang kinalaman, hindi sukatan at hindi panimbang ang paniniwala ng kahit gaano pa karaming tao sa pagtukoy ng katotohanan o fact.
i feel like ive mentally masturbated. repeating myself is exhausting hehehehe
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"You’re entitled to your own opinions but you’re not entitled to your own facts."
Dito ko ibabase ang paliwanag ko..
may opinyon kasi tayong tinatawag. Ngayon, ano bang pagkakaiba ng opinyon sa katotohanan?
Ang opinyon eh yung palagay mo lang na di mo kailangang suportahan ng ebidensya o sabihin ng nakararami.
Samantalang yung facts eh ito yung totoo na suportado ng ebidensya at sinasabi ng nakararami.
Hal: para sa akin, kulay pink ang langit. tama ako dahil opinyon ko ito para di ko pwedeng sabihin na ito ang totoo dahil alam natin na hindi pink ang langit..
Tumama lang ako dahil sabi ko opinyon ko ito. Pero pag sinabi kong katotohanan na pink ang langit, mali na ako.
Correct me if im wrong.. Noon kasing panahon ni Galileo, hindi pa established facts na bilog ang mundo, pinagtatalunan pa lang ito. Ganundin yun planets revolved around the sun..
pag ganun yung situation di mo ito magagamit kasi established facts ang pinag uusapan dito hindi yung iniestablish pa lang na fact..
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would you please give another example?
i am trying to determine how to respond. yung halimbawang "pink ang langit" to me is a bit ridiculous. for all we know eh pisikal palang issue yan -- color-blind halimbawa. kung ganon eh tama talaga sya para sa sarili nya. hindi po opinyon iyon kundi physical condition. to use the "pink ang langit" example and then justify it by claiming it as an opinion just isn't right. please give another example para matantya ko what you actually want to convey.
physical evidence, eye witness testimony, anecdotes, rumors, claims and stories heard, seen or read about help people give "informed" opinions. thinking or accepting claims, conjecture and rumors as possible or believable does not mean we create our own facts.
stating anything just for the heck of it and then cowering under the words "in my opinion" is shallow and juvenile -- perhaps even empty-headed. that is my opinion, at least.
regarding marcos, what facts are there? like i said earlier, puno ang buhay at pamumuno nya ng kuwestyon at spekulasyon. i am quite sure though that facts we know about marcos isn't or shouldnt be based on the opinion of the masses.
again: a fact is a fact regardless of how many people believe or agree with it. further, any evidence would only support a fact and not create it.
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In general ito..
para sa akin, kuwadrado ang bola. tama ako dahil opinyon ko ito pero di ko pwedeng ipagpilitan na ito ang totoo dahil alam naman natin base sa bola mismo (ebidensya) at sa mga nakakakita, nakakahawak nito (pinangkasunduan ng mga tao) na hindi kuwadrado ang bola.. ito ay bilog..
"You’re entitled to your own opinions but you’re not entitled to your own facts."
hope u get it..
would you please give another example?
i am trying to determine how to respond. yung halimbawang "pink ang langit" to me is a bit ridiculous. for all we know eh pisikal palang issue yan -- color-blind halimbawa. kung ganon eh tama talaga sya para sa sarili nya. hindi po opinyon iyon kundi physical condition. to use the "pink ang langit" example and then justify it by claiming it as an opinion just isn't right. please give another example para matantya ko what you actually want to convey.
physical evidence, eye witness testimony, anecdotes, rumors, claims and stories heard, seen or read about help people give "informed" opinions. thinking or accepting claims, conjecture and rumors as possible or believable does not mean we create our own facts.
stating anything just for the heck of it and then cowering under the words "in my opinion" is shallow and juvenile -- perhaps even empty-headed. that is my opinion, at least.
regarding marcos, what facts are there? like i said earlier, puno ang buhay at pamumuno nya ng kuwestyon at spekulasyon. i am quite sure though that facts we know about marcos isn't or shouldnt be based on the opinion of the masses.
again: a fact is a fact regardless of how many people believe or agree with it. further, any evidence would only support a fact and not create it.
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In general ito..
para sa akin, kuwadrado ang bola. tama ako dahil opinyon ko ito pero di ko pwedeng ipagpilitan na ito ang totoo dahil alam naman natin base sa bola mismo (ebidensya) at sa mga nakakakita, nakakahawak nito (pinangkasunduan ng mga tao) na hindi kuwadrado ang bola.. ito ay bilog..
"You’re entitled to your own opinions but you’re not entitled to your own facts."
hope u get it..
pakiayos nga sir ang logic mo, nahihiya na ako para sa iyo..parang di ka nakakuha or pumasa sa logic class mo nung college. omg..
you're always hiding behind the bush..puro ka palusot eh inconsistent na nga line of reasoning mo. pambihira di ka na naka-alis sa opinion-fact na yan ah. di mo narerealize na relative yan pareho. what matters most is how you reason out or substantiate it.
Sige gamitin natin sa topic na sinimulan mo para maisara na ito totally at matigil na rin ang kahangalan dito, if ever the US really love Makoy's ass then bakit sya sinipa? sige isasagot mo kasi dun sa dinami daming mga kamalian na ginawa nya..or kasi dahil nagsawa na ang mga pinoy sa mga mali nya.. Pero sa analysis ng mga historyador natin, Agoncillo, Constantino and Saulo pag ang isang pangulo natin ay hindi suportado ng mga Kano, eh babagsak o maalis ito.. E. Aguinaldo being a revolutionary and former US ally and turned anti-US President, former President Carlos Garcia one term lang for his Filipino First Policy, Macapagal , one term lang din for his Nationalist stance, then you have Makoy during his lupus years, and lastly was Erap for his populist or pro masses policies.
Ok provided that this is an opinion, using hypothetical proposition sa logic, or way of reasoning, kung walang kinalaman ang US sa pagpaalis sa kanila bakit sila napaalis?
Ok lets use the same parameter sa ibang Filipino presidents:Bakit sila Quezon, Osmena, Roxas, Quirino, Aquino, Ramos, Gloria and PNOy bakit hindi napaalis? i believe you'll have tons of sophisticated answers that requires dots and lines to connect.
But simply read and go back to their policies and you'll see that the very common trend is always protecting the US interests from the MBA treaty of 1947, Laurel Langley Agreement, Money Laundering Act up to the VFA.
What I'm trying to show you is this is a hypothetical - conditional proposition. Question is this a fact or opinion? Which ever is the answer, the reasoning for sure is valid and that makes it a somehow truthful.
"Entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts?" Perhaps only patients in a mental asylum would agree to that. Well if i may add, i wouldn't wish to be a part nor be entitled to someone's ignorance especially if it sucks big time.
Geeesh.. i've never seen a line of reasoning which borders on bigotry and inanity.
Please organize your thoughts well. lintik napapaghalataan ka talaga sir..pag sa iba ang posters dito opinion lang pero pag sa iyo fact? Nahiya naman ako sir para sa iyo. Your opinions are facts? And other people's insights even if they were already substantiated and well informed coupled with facts remains an opinion? What a double standard. This a complete mockery and debasement of what forums shouldn't become.
Pagamit gamit ka pa ng sinabi ng teacher mo, but you yourself violated it's context, shame on that! And please, enough of trying to redefine terms nagmumukha ka lang lalong irrelevant sa discussions na sinimulan mo.
Down with bigotry and idiocy! Makakabaog ng isip ng mga tao yan. :o
P.S. - Basahin mo na lang kahit mga articles ni Renato Constantino about US imperialism para in greater picture makita mo yung relasyon ng mga kinokontra mo.
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The thing i wonder is how did he get so darn brilliant, evil or good.
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Ikaw ang matigas ang ulo at di nakakaintindi. It's very illogical na sarili mong analysis and conclusion ang ginagamit mo tapos yun na ang sasabihin mong tama..
Uulitin ko, the fact na di naman napatunayan na CIA nga ang nagpatalsik kay marcos..
The fact na di rin napatunayan na si Makoy ang nagpapatay kay Ninoy..
It will remain na opinion/haka haka/ kuro kuro lang ito otherwise magiging facts ito kung napatunayan.
Your're insisting about CIA samantalang hindi naman yun ang main topic dito. Ang post ko sa taas eh biography and Economy during Marcos, yung ang sinasabi kong facts sayo, ngayon kung may tanong ka dun, dun mo ibase ang tanong..
Tinatanong mo sa akin porke sabi ko sa wikileaks galing, pero binasa mo ba yung post ko? yung laman ng post ko ang importante dito. Ngayon kung may tanong ka dun, yun ang pagtalunan natin..
Hindi yung gagawa ka ng kwento tapos pipilitin mo akong maniwala sayo..
"Entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts?" Perhaps only patients in a mental asylum would agree to that. Well if i may add, i wouldn't wish to be a part nor be entitled to someone's ignorance especially if it sucks big time.
Sa sobrang unreasonable mo, personal na ata ang ginagawa mo.. But i still respect you because I know it is a universal human vulnerability that we construct our own facts, with the help of like minded people, to support our world views, desires and ambitions. Sometimes our assumed facts create contradictory and unsustainable opinions and world views.
Sige gamitin natin sa topic na sinimulan mo para maisara na ito totally at matigil na rin ang kahangalan dito, if ever the US really love Makoy's ass then bakit sya sinipa? sige isasagot mo kasi dun sa dinami daming mga kamalian na ginawa nya..or kasi dahil nagsawa na ang mga pinoy sa mga mali nya.. Pero sa analysis ng mga historyador natin, Agoncillo, Constantino and Saulo pag ang isang pangulo natin ay hindi suportado ng mga Kano, eh babagsak o maalis ito.. E. Aguinaldo being a revolutionary and former US ally and turned anti-US President, former President Carlos Garcia one term lang for his Filipino First Policy, Macapagal , one term lang din for his Nationalist stance, then you have Makoy during his lupus years, and lastly was Erap for his populist or pro masses policies.
Ok provided that this is an opinion, using hypothetical proposition sa logic, or way of reasoning, kung walang kinalaman ang US sa pagpaalis sa kanila bakit sila napaalis?
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init ng ulo nila...hehehe
i agree with yummy though. your logic is flawed dimmu.
kaya ako humingi ng isa pang halimbawa ay para malaman kung ano ang gusto mo talagang tukuyin regarding matters of "opinion." to be honest kasi, hindi ko maintindihan sa unang halimbawa mo kung seryoso ka o sarcastic. medyo gets ko naman na which it is sa 2nd example mo.
pre, your reasoning is unreasonable and contradictory. may statements ka claiming facts of things na "hindi napatunayan" and then sinundan mo ng bago maging facts "dapat muna napatunayan." eh ano ba talaga?
sabi mo rin hindi dapat ipilit na tama ang opinion ni yummy pero you keep on insisting na lahat ng opinion ay tama. again, ano ba talaga?
see what i mean about contradictory? in my opinion, not only do you contradict yourself, you seem bent on twisting and molding your own brand of logic just to contradict others. hindi naman po lahat ng pagpuna sa kamalian natin ay mali. hindi po tayo dapat maging defensive at every turn. introspection is useful sometimes.
regarding biographies and economies po during marcos' time or anybody else's time, mahirap pong mag claim ng "significant facts." there would be too many factors and too many angles unless we would settle for simple factual details like dates and numbers.
biographies and economics are part of history. in posting such in a forum, they are slaves to our opinions and not to facts.
seriously unreasonable: "pink ang langit" at "kuwadrado ang bola"
i mentioned this previously: stating anything just for the heck of it and then cowering under the words "in my opinion" is shallow and juvenile -- perhaps even empty-headed.
that goes for statements in total conflict with known and incontrovertible facts then claiming such as subjects of one's personal opinion as a matter of prerogative or privilege.
that is flawed logic. to do so twice is just to be truly stubborn.
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Ikaw ang matigas ang ulo at di nakakaintindi. It's very illogical na sarili mong analysis and conclusion ang ginagamit mo tapos yun na ang sasabihin mong tama..
I didn't said na tama mga sinasabi ko, but unlike you i substantiate it. Eh ikaw double standards? Ok fine, tama ka na..for a thought ganun pala dapat ang thread starter kailangan laging tama. oh that's just so lame..
Uulitin ko, the fact na di naman napatunayan na CIA nga ang nagpatalsik kay marcos..
Really? Nagbasa ka ng wikileaks tapos di mo matanggap na may kinalaman ang US sa bansa natin lalo na nung time ng 1986 Marcos ouster? Oh come on, pride mo na lang yan sir Dimmu.
Imagine I gave you links, i gave you titles of books where you could refer and even gave you the benefit of debunking my arguments pero you failed to elevate your case. You just lost your credibility as a worthy forumer here pag ganyan ka sumalag ng posts.
The fact na di rin napatunayan na si Makoy ang nagpapatay kay Ninoy.. This came from you not mine! Pero kung gagawa ka ng separate thread for this, sige game akong pagusapan.
It will remain na opinion/haka haka/ kuro kuro lang ito otherwise magiging facts ito kung napatunayan.
Again one of your trademarks of hiding behind the bush, pag meron kang ayaw tanggapin na insight, ito lagi ang linya mo.. magamit nga rin ito sa love interest ko.
Your're insisting about CIA samantalang hindi naman yun ang main topic dito. Ang post ko sa taas eh biography and Economy during Marcos, yung ang sinasabi kong facts sayo, ngayon kung may tanong ka dun, dun mo ibase ang tanong..
As far as the title says, True Color of Ferdinand Marcos, i don't see any inconsistency dahil related pa rin naman sa "biography" este buhay at Economic conditions nung time ni Makoy (Lupus years). Lalo na yung pagbagsak nya sa kapangyarihan. Wow ayos ka rin mag-delimit ng topic, pag talagang ayaw mo ng posts you'll howl to return to your issue. That's plain bigotry! Better check yours ikaw ata ang nawawala madalas.
Tinatanong mo sa akin porke sabi ko sa wikileaks galing, pero binasa mo ba yung post ko? yung laman ng post ko ang importante dito. Ngayon kung may tanong ka dun, yun ang pagtalunan natin..
Yeah i read them, and they're somewhat inconsistent with your line of reasoning dahil siguro sa sobrang kawindangan, i was explaining part of the downfall of Marcos was the change of heart of the US gov't in favor of the opposition. I raised the CIA since, authors of books, and personalities behind the 1986 Marcos ouster have all indicated the US had a hand in Makoy's ouster. I substantiated it further using logic and emperical data, na pag suportado ng US ang isang Pangulo natin, hindi sya nawawala sa posisyon o nabibigyan pa ng termino. If you're not in the good graces of the US may paglalagyan ka.
Hindi yung gagawa ka ng kwento tapos pipilitin mo akong maniwala sayo..
Tell that to the historians, tell it to the pundits, tell this to the political and historical analysts. Better yet tell this to yourself. Kwento? Well, lahat naman insights may kwento, lahat ng opinion at facts may kwento. It just a matter of delivering your arguments that should be well substantiated.
Sa sobrang unreasonable mo, personal na ata ang ginagawa mo.. But i still respect you because I know it is a universal human vulnerability that we construct our own facts, with the help of like minded people, to support our world views, desires and ambitions. Sometimes our assumed facts create contradictory and unsustainable opinions and world views.
Oh so now you're taking the high road? Just observe how you deliver you tirade to those who oppose your thoughts. You are what you deserve sir Dimmu Borgir. I condemn what you practice here.
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si yummy lang mainit ulo dito.. hehehehehe
Uulitin ko ang mga facts lang na claim ko:
1. Biography of marcos
2. Economy during marcos
3. BNPP
I didn't said na tama sinasabi ko,
Then, anong pinagtatalunan natin dito??
Really? Nagbasa ka ng wikileaks tapos di mo matanggap na may kinalaman sila sa bansa natin lalo na nung time ng 1986 Marcos ouster?
HIndi ko sinabing di ko matanggap, ang sinasabi ko wlang ebidensya na sila nga ang nasa likod ng pag-alis ni Marcos. Remember, there is EDSA People Power, ito yung katotohanan.
As far as the title says, True Color of Ferdinand Marcos, i don't see any inconsistency dahil related pa rin naman sa biography este buhay ni Makoy
Focus on main topic, nawawala na yung essence ng topic kung mga related lang ang pag uusapan natin. There are so many topics na related kay marcos but it's too long kung yun ang pag uusapan natin.
Tell that to the pundits, tell this to the political and historical analysts.
Yeah, they are just analyst, this is all about analysis but in the end, di mo masasabing yun na ang tama. Natural lang sa tao na gumawa ng sarili nyang opinyon pero kung sasabihin nating ang opinyon natin ay yun na ang totoo at yun ang dapat paniwalaan, mawawala na ang essence ng facts..
Oh so now you're taking the high road? Just observe how you deliver you tirade to those who oppose your thoughts.
Again and again, this is NOT my personal thoughts/opinions..
Sinasabi ko na nga paulit ulit na hindi ko ito personal thoughts, pinagpipilitan mo pang ring personal thoughts ko ito..
Kaya nga sabi ko from Wikileaks, from kung anu anong source to justify na HINDI ko personal idea ang ginagamit ko, BAkit ba hindi mo ito maintindihan?
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this is very good argument, though...
Pls. read yung sinasabi kong facts...
sabi mo rin hindi dapat ipilit na tama ang opinion ni yummy pero you keep on insisting na lahat ng opinion ay tama. again, ano ba talaga?
Tama ang opinion ni Yummy in the sense na sa kanya lang pero pag dumating na sa puntong sasabihin sa akin ni Yummy na opinion nya ay tama, mali na yun.
Pero mag iiba yun kung yung opinyon ni Yummy ay suportado ng ebidensya o sinasabi ng karamihan. Sa madaling salita napatunayan na yun talaga ang totoo.
In case dito, wala namang ebidensya na nagsasabi na CIA nga ang dahilan ng pagalis ni Marcos, sabihin na nating may motibo pero di pa rin natin maiijustify na using our own conclusion na CIA nga ang dahilan, Unlike sa people power, which is a fact na yun ang dahilan ng pag alis ni marcos.
We cannot assume a certain thing using our imaginative mind and sabihin nating yun na ang totoo..
Can u get my point?
biographies and economics are part of history. in posting such in a forum, they are slaves to our opinions and not to facts.
Tama ka. Nagkakatalo lang naman dahil ipinipilit ni Yumi na paniwalaan ko ang opinion nya..
in my opinion, not only do you contradict yourself, you seem bent on twisting and molding your own brand of logic just to contradict others. hindi naman po lahat ng pagpuna sa kamalian natin ay mali. hindi po tayo dapat maging defensive at every turn. introspection is useful sometimes.
regarding biographies and economies po during marcos' time or anybody else's time, mahirap pong mag claim ng "significant facts." there would be too many factors and too many angles unless we would settle for simple factual details like dates and numbers.
biographies and economics are part of history. in posting such in a forum, they are slaves to our opinions and not to facts.
+1 for you.. What can i say? I your respect opinion.
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si yummy lang mainit ulo dito.. hehehehehe
Wow Survival Ploy ba ito Sir Dimmu? Pity you!
Uulitin ko ang mga facts lang na claim ko:
1. Biography of marcos
2. Economy during marcos
3. BNPP
Yeah it all falls on your excellent outline of your bigotry trap. Why am i not surprised?
Then, anong pinagtatalunan natin dito??
Uhm let me guess, Bigotry? Idiocy? oh perhaps Irrationality?
HIndi ko sinabing di ko matanggap, ang sinasabi ko wlang ebidensya na sila nga ang nasa likod ng pag-alis ni Marcos. Remember, there is EDSA People Power, ito yung katotohanan.
No evidence? You've browsed on wikileaks files, these are files that were hacked mainly from the CIA, ilang beses ng naglabas sa net ang Wikileaks ng classified ads, many were misadventures of the US government in the Philippines. Sa dami ng references na binigay ko sa iyo ni isa hindi sinalag. i don't know if your playing stupid or really are stupid.
Your pride must have been hurt so deep that that you can't even take in the bitter pill
Focus on main topic, nawawala na yung essence ng topic kung mga related lang ang pag uusapan natin. There are so many topics na related kay marcos but it's too long kung yun ang pag uusapan natin.
There you go again with your deceitful and failed trademark. Ayos ka rin ha? I-delimit nanaman ang topic for you own convenience? Bangkarote na ang linya na ito Sir Dimmu spare us please.
Yeah, they are just analyst, this is all about analysis but in the end, di mo masasabing yun na ang tama. Natural lang sa tao na gumawa ng sarili nyang opinyon pero kung sasabihin nating ang opinyon natin ay yun na ang totoo at yun ang dapat paniwalaan, mawawala na ang essence ng facts..
And what do you consider yourself aside from being an opinionated freak who disguises himself as the bearer of the truth and fails miserably in rationalizing issues he himself has started?
Again and again, this is NOT my personal thoughts/opinions..
Sinasabi ko na nga paulit ulit na hindi ko ito personal thoughts, pinagpipilitan mo pang ring personal thoughts ko ito..
Then who wrote those posts under the handle name "Dimmu Borgir? your unconscious you? Grabe na ito..desperado ka na talaga sir. How dare you use and invoke them in our debates, tapos ganito ang reply? Marunong ka ba talagang mag-analisa at mag-sinsin? Are you trying to make fools out of us?
Kaya nga sabi ko from Wikileaks, from kung anu anong source to justify na HINDI ko personal idea ang ginagamit ko, BAkit ba hindi mo ito maintindihan?
You invoke as your reference topics lifted from web encyclopedias and wikileaks it means that they form as backbone of your argument to make your arguing well established, but still they're are on a shaky ground if logic per se would be used to substantiate it.
Bakas na bakas sir na nawindang ka na sa mga pinagsasabi mo. I dare say wag kang magpost ng issues na hindi mo inaral o naiintidihan. Even you posts facts these will remain relative more so with opinions, worse if they are not even well argued or substantiated. Para tayong nagkaroon ng misinformation drive about Philippine History.
Balikan mo na lang ako pag nabasa mo na yung mga books, references, links na sinabi ko sa iyo na basahin mo. Until then Irrelevance and Obscurity will remain as the main themes of your thread.
I can't help but utter this quote i saw in some forum : "If you can't stun people of their intelligence, amaze them with your stupidity." 8)
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salamat sa +1 (sa totoo lang di ko pa rin alam para saan yun hehehe)
anyway, tatantanan ko na muna ang pagiging teknikal sa pagsasabi ng fact. pero fact pa rin ang hihiritan ko.
i dont agree with what you said na "fact" na people power ang dahilan ng pagalis ni marcos. at best, it would or could have been one of the reasons but i cannot say that it was ultimately so. wala naman talagang makakapagsabi ng tiyak at tunay na dahilan ng pagalis ni marcos. kahit pa maraming naniniwala na people power ang dahilan, hindi ibig sabihin po na yun nga ang rason nya. malay ba natin sa takbo ng utak nya at kung ano ano ang isinaalang alang nya para umalis. remember, nagka people power din to oust erap and gloria. yung against gloria didnt work and erap stayed.
why would marcos flee? he never resigned and when his family left, there was a feeling that their lives were in danger. why didnt he just do what erap did? di naman nya kailangang matakot kasi bloodless revolution ang people power di ba?
this is something i consider as fact: marcos didnt order the military to attack. even marcos' detractors couldnt claim otherwise. daming eroplano, helicopter, tangke, apv's noon. one shot or one bomb could have changed history but marcos didnt order the military to attack. why not? daming accusations of murders and dictatorship etc pero he just walked away. why?
anyway, my point is that there were other things happening na hindi natin alam at hindi rin natin masasabing hindi nangyari. baka US govt through the cia or whoever else influenced marcos. baka rin dahil alam nyang he was dying already. some even say na pinakawalan nya sina ramos at enrile -- to minimize the damage (to the govt/his interests/family) maybe?
at any rate, hinay hinay tayo sa pag claim ng facts o paggamit ng salitang fact.
personally nga pala, if i were dying or extremely unhealthy and people want to throw me out of the country? i wouldnt mind getting thrown into hawaii! im drooling just thinking about it! hehehe
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Sorry for interrupting sir Marmaim, pero ngayon lang po ito. Pramis! :)
Tama ang opinion ni Yummy in the sense na sa kanya lang pero pag dumating na sa puntong sasabihin sa akin ni Yummy na opinion nya ay tama, mali na yun.
No need to elaborate sir Dimmu, it's just plain bigotry on your part.
Pero mag iiba yun kung yung opinyon ni Yummy ay suportado ng ebidensya o sinasabi ng karamihan. Sa madaling salita napatunayan na yun talaga ang totoo.
I always did supported it kaya nga binigay ko nga mga titles ng books na pinababasa ko sa iyo di ba? I didn't only supported it better yet, well-informed and substantiated sya. ;)
In case dito, wala namang ebidensya na nagsasabi na CIA nga ang dahilan ng pagalis ni Marcos, sabihin na nating may motibo pero di pa rin natin maiijustify na using our own conclusion na CIA nga ang dahilan, Unlike sa people power, which is a fact na yun ang dahilan ng pag alis ni marcos.
Ok bigyan pa po kita ng assignemt sir -
Read the following para maging productive naman ang summer mo, don't worry walang po tayong exam at graded recitation:
1.William Blum's book - The Rogue State.
2. Blum, William. Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II. Monroe, Maine: Common Courage Press,1995.
3. Hager, Nicky. Secret Power. New Zealand: Craig Porton Publishing, 1996.
4. McGehee, Ralph. Deadly Deceits: My 25 years in the CIA. New York: Sheridan Square Publications, 1983.
5. Reyes, Narciso G. Memories of Diplomacy:A Life in the Philippine Foreign Service. Pasig City: Anvil Publishing Inc.,1995.
6. Richelson, Jeffrey T. The US Intelligence Community. Boulder, Colorado: Westview Press, 1999.
7. Robinson, William I. Promoting Polyarchy: Globalization, US Intervention and Hegemony. Great Britain: Cambridge University Press, 1996.
8. Shalom, Stephen. The United States and the Philippines: A Study of Neo-colonialism. Quezon City: New Day Publishers, 1986.
9. Simbulan, Roland. The Bases of Our Insecurity: A Study of the US Military Bases in the Philippines. Quezon City: Balai Foundation, 1983.
10. Smith, Joseph Burkholder. Portrait of a Cold Warrior. Toronto: Longman Canada, Ltd., 1976.
These are well-researched writings, pag ito hindi pa rin pumasa sa standards mo, wow you really deserve to be in a pedestal. :D
We cannot assume a certain thing using our imaginative mind and sabihin nating yun na ang totoo..
Even a fool won't know the difference of what's true or not . Abstraction po yan sir Dimmu lagi.
Can u get my point?
Do you even get your own point? That's should be the question your asking yourself.
Tama ka. Nagkakatalo lang naman dahil ipinipilit ni Yumi na paniwalaan ko ang opinion nya..
No and Never I will be doing that on someone else. Pambihira, sa hinaba haba ng debate at kakakontra mo, sa tingin mo maiimpluwensiyahan pa kita? Are you trying to be a funny here? I'm not forcing it on anyone else here. You're imaginative mind could have dictated you that it might be a fact for you to believe me. But your tongue speaks otherwise. I believe everyone here is competent enough to deliberate all issues, mostly posts here in this forums.
No need to reiterate your issues back, unless you're just trying to get my attention! you seeker. ;D
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ung +1 ko sau ay dahil dun sa opinion mo tungkol sa akin na tingin ko ay observation mo pero di mo ipinipilit sa akin na yun ay ako..
at nagawa mo yun by using the word "opinion"
i dont agree with what you said na "fact" na people power ang dahilan ng pagalis ni marcos. at best, it would or could have been one of the reasons but i cannot say that it was ultimately so. wala naman talagang makakapagsabi ng tiyak at tunay na dahilan ng pagalis ni marcos. kahit pa maraming naniniwala na people power ang dahilan, hindi ibig sabihin po na yun nga ang rason nya.
Tama ka nang sabihin mo na di natin alam ang tunay na reason kung bakit umalis si Marcos. Di naman talaga natin alam kung may iba pang dahilan..
At sabi mo din isa sa posibleng dahilan at alam ng karamihang tao na ay dahil sa people power kaya sila ay umalis...
Dahil sa ganitong mga sinabi mo eh nagiging FACTS ang people power na siyang "posibleng" dahilan dahil base dun sa paliwanag ng qoutes ko, dokumentado ito at sabi mo nga ito ang alam ng karamihang tao..
Yung mga sinasabi mong maaaring may ibang "posibleng dahilan", ito ay nagsisilbing opinyon lamang dahil di naman napatunayan ng ebidensya o nalalaman ng nakararami.. Di natin pinag uusapan ang kung anong ibang reasons nya sa pag alis niya..
anyway, my point is that there were other things happening na hindi natin alam at hindi rin natin masasabing hindi nangyari. baka US govt through the cia or whoever else influenced marcos. baka rin dahil alam nyang he was dying already. some even say na pinakawalan nya sina ramos at enrile -- to minimize the damage (to the govt/his interests/family) maybe?
yes tama ka in your own opinion but you cannot say it as a fact dahil sabi mo nga baka lang.......... Wala tayong pruweba para suportahan ang ganyang opinion.
Otherwise kung mapapatunayan natin yung ganyang claim, magiging facts na yan dahil may evidence tau...
wala naman talagang makakapagsabi ng tiyak at tunay na dahilan ng pagalis ni marcos.
Si yummy sir alam nya.. Kinokontra ko lang sya kaya di kami nagkakasundo... :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Mas maganda kung ganito ang kadebate mo, at least marunong magconsider ng mga reasons, kesa naman sayo yummy
@yummy,
yung sa libro, wala akong pangbili.. type mo dito para mabasa ko...
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no need po for apologies mam yam. ako nga po sumisingit sa talakayan nyo ni dimmu eh.
please lang po mam yam! wag akong bigyan ng assignment!! hehehe
dimmu, hindi po talaga maaaring isaalang alang ang kaalaman, pang-unawa o pagtanggap ng nakararami sa isang pananaw o pangyayari sa pagtunton o pagtukoy ng katotohanan o katiyakan. parati po at walang humpay ang pagbabago sa pananaw at paniniwala ng mga tao sa pagdaan ng panahon. ang tama o katanggap tanggap at nalalaman ngayon ay maaaring malimot o mabalewala bukas. kapag po nangyari iyon, ang mga bagay na totoo at tiyak ay facts pa rin. ulit po with feelings: facts are not determined by the agreement or acceptance of the masses. not even a mob can sway the truth.
at isa ka pa dimmu, please lang! wag mo kong pag-type-in ng libro dito! hehehe
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no need po for apologies mam yam. ako nga po sumisingit sa talakayan nyo ni dimmu eh.
please lang po mam yam! wag akong bigyan ng assignment!! hehehe
dimmu, hindi po talaga maaaring isaalang alang ang kaalaman, pang-unawa o pagtanggap ng nakararami sa isang pananaw o pangyayari sa pagtunton o pagtukoy ng katotohanan o katiyakan. parati po at walang humpay ang pagbabago sa pananaw at paniniwala ng mga tao sa pagdaan ng panahon. ang tama o katanggap tanggap at nalalaman ngayon ay maaaring malimot o mabalewala bukas. kapag po nangyari iyon, ang mga bagay na totoo at tiyak ay facts pa rin. ulit po with feelings: facts are not determined by the agreement or acceptance of the masses. not even a mob can sway the truth.
at isa ka pa dimmu, please lang! wag mo kong pag-type-in ng libro dito! hehehe
actually the books are for sir dimmu :) don't worry i know were you stand po.
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Si yummy sir alam nya.. Kinokontra ko lang sya kaya di kami nagkakasundo... :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Mas maganda kung ganito ang kadebate mo, at least marunong magconsider ng mga reasons, kesa naman sayo yummy
How would i consider an uninformed opinion? Sige bibilib ako kay sir dimmu kung magbibigay ka ng analysis mo, i-substantiate mo using literature about power dynamics ng US and Philippines.
Just continue reading. Kahit Renato Constantino na lang na mga articles ang basahin mo..galit din naman ito kay Makoy eh..
@yummy,
yung sa libro, wala akong pangbili.. type mo dito para mabasa ko...
[/quote][/color]
Sheeesh, You have all the audacity to contradict all through out tapos isa nanamang lame alibi? Sir Dimmu nakakapag-internet ka, i'm pretty sure sa google may mga pdf files na nagkalat. Kung gusto may paraan, kung ayaw marami ang dahilan.
The links are already been given. Backread na lang po. I've done my part here.
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How would i consider an uninformed opinion?
paulit ulit, di nga ako nagbibigay ng analysis ko.. Kelan mo ba ito maiintindihan?
Against ito dun sa quotation na ginagamit ko..
You have all the audacity to contradict all through out tapos isa nanamang lame alibi?
It is not an alibi, it's all about fairness since yung mga sinasabi ko sau eh pinaghihirapan kong ipaste dito para di ka na maghanap.. pinagresearch ba kita?
galit din naman ito kay Makoy eh
Galit ba ako kay marcos? NO... for the record, di ako pro or anti marcos or pro or anti aquino..
Ganyan ka na ba kagaling para malaman mo kung galit ako o hindi kay Marcos.. The problem is, pinag aaralan mo at inaanalisa mo ang isang bagay tapos pagdating mo sa dulo gagawa ka ng sarili mong conclusion na which is very flawed..
Kumuha lang ako ng dalawa sa sinabi mo..
If you have critically analyzed documentary programs leading to the EDSA Elite's uprising the Opposition led by Ninoy's widow would be the best alternative in promoting US interests
Have you ever wondered who really killed Ninoy? of course you're gonna point a finger again on the same and often-maligned president...
Dumarating ka sa puntong pati sarili kong pag iisip ay nalalaman mo na.. Even, you didn't even know me personally. Nahusgahan mo na kaagad ako using your own analysis..
That is not the right thing.
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totoo kaya mga treasure ng mga japanese during marcos time.
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Para sa akin, totoo yung Marcos Treasure. Kasi dito sa amin meron nakuha si Marcos na tons of gold..
Di kasi ito well documented kaya parang nagiging haka haka na lang.
Sabi nga ni yummy eh pure speculation lang ito..
totoo kaya mga treasure ng mga japanese during marcos time.
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Para sa akin, totoo yung Marcos Treasure. Kasi dito sa amin meron nakuha si Marcos na tons of gold..
Di kasi ito well documented kaya parang nagiging haka haka na lang.
Sabi nga ni yummy eh pure speculation lang ito..
Nice claim.."tapos hindi well documented"?
Tragis yan..paganda ng paganda sloping argument mo sir Dimmu..
kapanipaniwala! sana nilagyan mo ulit ng sources sa internet encyclopedia saka wikileaks..
oh by the way dito sa amin, nanggaling ang yung buddha statue ng mga hapones, ang pangalan "Golden" lol
enough of your bull sir dimmu.. you lost your credibility here. :P
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hindi para sayo ang sagot ko, ok? exchanging ideas lang naming dalawa yun and it doesn't need your opinion. hindi yan ang sagot ko sayo.
Basahin mo yung isa, yun ang para sayo..
Tragis yan..paganda ng paganda sloping argument mo sir Dimmu..
Paano mo na naman nasabing argument ito? I'm so exhausted the way you think..
Nice claim.."tapos hindi well documented"?
Tragis yan..paganda ng paganda sloping argument mo sir Dimmu..
kapanipaniwala! sana nilagyan mo ulit ng sources sa internet encyclopedia saka wikileaks..
oh by the way dito sa amin, nanggaling ang yung buddha statue ng mga hapones, ang pangalan "Golden" lol
enough of your bull sir dimmu.. you lost your credibility here. :P
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totoo kaya mga treasure ng mga japanese during marcos time.
In the book "Gold Warriors" written by Sterling and Peggy Seagrave notable Asian historical writers from the US.
There was in fact a rich loot of Japanese gold bullions recovered in batches in 1945. Separate pa po dito yung nakuha ni Rogelio Roxas sa Mountain Province na kilala sa tawag na golden buddha.
Most of the Japanese treasure were looted by the US government after one of Filipino who serves as a servant or valet of Emperor Hirohito's brother - Prince Chichibu named Ben Valmores revealed the Japanese Imperial Army's operation of hiding the treasures in the Philippines. The Japanese treasure/loot was codenamed "Kin No Yuri" or "Golden Lily"
A Filipino-American Intelligence officer named Severino Garcia Santa Romana extracted vital information during one of his torture sessions with Major Kojima Kashii who later led the US forces to the different vaults in Northern Luzon where most of the Japanese treasures were hidden. Kojima who's been severely tortured led Capt. Edward Lansdale and "Santy" Santa Romana to more than a dozen Golden Lily treasure vaults in the rugged country north of Manila. What they found astounded everyone from General Douglas MacArthur all the way up to the White House. After discussions with his cabinet, President Harry Truman decided to keep the recovery a state secret.
Santy's ensuing recoveries greatly altered America's leverage during the Cold War. According to senior US government officials and high-ranking US Army officers, the Truman administration set this treasure aside along with Axis loot recovered in Europe, as a secret political action fund to fight communism in the Cold War.
US President Harry Truman's desire to keep the recovery secret to the entire world was strategic. This was confirmed by a number of high-level sources, including former CIA deputy director Ray Cline, who knew about Santy's recoveries in 1945, and continued to be involved in attempts in the 1980s and 1990s to hide blocks of Japanese war loot still said to be in the vaults of banks in New York.
According to Ray Cline and others, between 1945 and 1947 the gold bullion recovered by "Santy" Santa Romana and Lansdale was moved discreetly to 172 accounts at banks in 42 countries.
Pertinent details from the book "Gold Warriors"
Pero i'm sure opinion lang ito para kay Sir Dimmu.. 8)
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hindi para sayo ang sagot ko, ok? exchanging ideas lang naming dalawa yun and it doesn't need your opinion. hindi yan ang sagot ko sayo.
Basahin mo yung isa, yun ang para sayo..
this is an open forum..hindi naman sinabi na by invite ang pagcomment.
Para sa akin, totoo yung Marcos Treasure. Kasi dito sa amin meron nakuha si Marcos na tons of gold..
Di kasi ito well documented kaya parang nagiging haka haka na lang.
Paano mo na naman nasabing argument ito?
An argument is composed of propositions, propositions carries ideas. FYI. You even stated it "Categorically" - Totoo ang Marcos treasure kasi may nakuha sa dito sa amin" tama? Aral aral din ng Logic sir..
How true na Marcos/Japanese treasure nga? Kasi sabi mo lang? Eh kulang nga yung supporting details mo para maging credible at valid yang "idea" mo.
I'm so exhausted the way you think..
I dare ask why are you complaining for getting too exhausted when it is me who's doing the thinking. At least i'm not only thinking but rationalizing as well.
Mapagod ka kung ikaw talaga'y nagiisip..hihihi ;D
Read More! Di ka pa makakagraduate sa kin. lol
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Oooops! I missed this one, here have all the pleasure reading..
How would i consider an uninformed opinion?
paulit ulit, di nga ako nagbibigay ng analysis ko.. Kelan mo ba ito maiintindihan?
Against ito dun sa quotation na ginagamit ko.. No wonder you end up like that, giving uninformed opinions..
It is not an alibi, it's all about fairness since yung mga sinasabi ko sau eh pinaghihirapan kong ipaste dito para di ka na maghanap.. pinagresearch ba kita?
Yeah I agree, you have worked hard enough posting, but too lazy to substantiate them.
"Galit din naman ito kay Makoy eh"
Galit ba ako kay marcos? NO... for the record, di ako pro or anti marcos or pro or anti aquino..
Why is it you that i'm addressing here? I've used him as a reference being an Anti Marcos author and writer. Are you in the same class or level? Feeling ka naman masyado diyan Sir Dimmu.
Ganyan ka na ba kagaling para malaman mo kung galit ako o hindi kay Marcos.. The problem is, pinag aaralan mo at inaanalisa mo ang isang bagay tapos pagdating mo sa dulo gagawa ka ng sarili mong conclusion na which is very flawed..
Then so be it. Kung flawed man siya at least I have all the audacity to present my argument completely whether thru the spirit of the letter and substance. How about you? Can you also make such claims kung hindi mo nga mabali bali yang mga ideas mo? Are you an egoistic freak to address me on such? Lame!
Dumarating ka sa puntong pati sarili kong pag iisip ay nalalaman mo na.. Even, you didn't even know me personally. Nahusgahan mo na kaagad ako using your own analysis..
Wow ginawa mo pa kong psychic..Ano ako si Bella ng Twilight? lol As i've said in one earlier post, You are what you deserve! Whatever comes around goes around. Don't blame me or other posters here for your failure of refuting effectively other forumers' posts.
See how bigot you are, nagagalit/napipikon ka pag nababara ka. If you don't like suffering and getting tormented by other people's reactions then by all means..Stop posting or commenting unfounded claims.
I have one piece of sisterly advice Sir Dimmu, Read and Be More Substantial!
That is not the right thing.
Sabihin mo sa sarili mo yan!
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Hahaha you love birds still at it?
Peace na kayo hahaha! Dimmu throw in the towel, this girl right here is in it to win it! Hahaha!
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Hahaha you love birds still at it?
OMG! Lovebirds? Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew!!! Sir Prime/Primus naman eeehh! :-[
You could have said adversaries, rivals, nemesis or frenemies.. ;D Grabe gawan ba ng twist? Aaaaargh! :'(
Peace na kayo hahaha
Di naman po kami nag-aaway eh, debate lang naman po ito. :)
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Wow ginawa mo pa kong psychic.
If you have critically analyzed documentary programs leading to the EDSA Elite's uprising the Opposition led by Ninoy's widow would be the best alternative in promoting US interests..
Sa pag analisa mo ng mga bagay bagay dumating ka sa conclusion na ganito which indeed refuted by Ongpin.. Ipinapakita lang nito kung gaano ka flaws ang argument mo..
Tapos ang reasoning mo na naman minamalign ni Ongpin si Marcos.
Endless stories just to prove your claim. The vulnerability of human being exist in you.
Have you ever wondered who really killed Ninoy? of course you're gonna point a finger again on the same and often-maligned president...
Ano pala tawag mo dito kung di ka si Madam Auring...
"Galit din naman ito kay Makoy eh"
Re examine para makuha mo ang gusto kong sabihin..
Napakaraming flaws ng argumento mo sa simula pa lang.Napakahaba kung iisa isahin ko..
Pero walang katapusan ang pagtatalong ito dahil you're old enough pero until now di mo pa rin alam ang difference ng opinion and facts....
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Sa pag analisa mo ng mga bagay bagay dumating ka sa conclusion na ganito which indeed refuted by Ongpin.. Ipinapakita lang nito kung gaano ka flaws ang argument mo..
Naaah, it wasn't a conclusion, it was a substantiated insight. Basa basa pa Sir Dimmu. Sipag sipag din.
Tapos ang reasoning mo na naman minamalign ni Ongpin si Marcos.
Endless stories just to prove your claim. The vulnerability of human being exist in you.
Malign? Or understanding and analyzing his motives? Eh ikaw nama pala ang sobrang guilty ng pagiging judgmental dito eh.. Baka ikaw yung nakakabasa sa isip ko.
To err is to be human, I'll gladly accept it.. eh ikaw? Bigot? An egocentric freak who lives and dies on the very issue that your opinion par excellence which unfortunately lacks in substance carries the weight of a sage? Holy cow!
Have you ever wondered who really killed Ninoy? of course you're gonna point a finger again on the same and often-maligned president...
Ano pala tawag mo dito kung di ka si Madam Auring...
It really shows you really don't have a background on Aristotlean Logic do you? Most of my rebuttal on your "intellectually-challenged" positions are stated hypothetically.. and if they are categorically stated, they are well substantiated. Please aralin mo nga or balikan mo kung kumuha ka ng logic yung topics about ideas, terms, propositions, syllogisms and pati fallacies na rin para maging sensible naman ang pagsagot mo.
Napakaraming flaws ng argumento mo sa simula pa lang.Napakahaba kung iisa isahin ko..
Fallacious, your subject is irrelevant sa predicate mo, it doesn't mean kung mahabang basahin eh flawed na. Come on Sir Dimmu is this the best (or the worst) that you could throw back? You're saying it's flawed, substantiate it, tapatan mo ng teorya at analysis. Lintik naman, fact or opinion ka pa rin? Please evolve Brother.
Pero walang katapusan ang pagtatalong ito dahil you're old enough pero until now di mo pa rin alam ang difference ng opinion and facts....
What's my age got to do with ending this engaging discussion? First you attacked my thoughts, then you labeled my reasoning, and now taunting my age? What's next Sir Dimmu? Let me guess... fact and opinion pa din? hahaha! :P
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Anyway, ni research mo na ba ang difference ng facts and opinion?
At yung pina pa re examine ko..
yang dalawa ang assignment mo mamaya pagkatapos mong magluto....
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Anyway, ni research mo na ba ang difference ng facts and opinion?
At yung pina pa re examine ko..
Wow do i see a "Red Herring" coming?
I said my piece regarding these two..relative itong dalawa di ba yun po ang sabi ko? Before you continue your habit of being fallacious and embarrassing yourself go find a logic book and study it with zeal sir Dimmu. Di ka maka-move on sa topic na ikaw lang ang namamangha.
yang dalawa ang assignment mo mamaya pagkatapos mong magluto....
Naaah beggars can't choose and dictate what they want.. hindi ka pa nga nakakasalag sa mga posts ko then you demand on this? Pity and curse your wounded pride. Sa sobrang sakit at kahihiyan sa pinagsasagot mo dito kung anu-ano na lang sinasabi mo.
Come on be more substantial. Sinimulan mo sa pag-invoke sa mga sources mo eh like internet encyclopedia and wikileaks and your noble claim of informing everyone through your rabid posts tapos ganito ka na lang babanat?
Be a Man Sir Dimmu, And be a gentleman as well who could admit that he too lacks the knowledge and the analytical skills of expounding and rationalizing topics as interesting on this thread.
I told you way back, kung flawed man ang posts ko dito so be it. Pero at least i substantiate it. Fact or Opinion? It's similar with the Egg and Chicken Question, iikot at iikot lang yan, relative yan. And madalas yung mahina lang magreason out ang bumibira niyan.
Pambihira hanap ka ng hanap ng butas sa topic an obsessed na obsessed ka - Fact and Opinion eh hindi ka nga makatibag ng arguments ng iba. Worse you even label them implicitly and explicitly in accordance to your feeble understanding.
Ikaw rin ang sumisira sa sarili mo dito. How can you become credible and even be a respected forumer here if you continue to bury yourself in that abysmal intolerance that you practice. Kahit sa sarili mo, mahiya ka naman.
Shame! :o
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Hahaha you love birds still at it?
OMG! Lovebirds? Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew!!! Sir Prime/Primus naman eeehh! :-[
You could have said adversaries, rivals, nemesis or frenemies.. ;D Grabe gawan ba ng twist? Aaaaargh! :'(
Peace na kayo hahaha
Di naman po kami nag-aaway eh, debate lang naman po ito. :)
Bwahahaha... Bff's? My homie? My brother from another mother? A sister from another mister?
Hahaha!
Alright, I just thought I would chime in with my wisdom of the ages. Carry-on kiddo. ; )
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Bwahahaha... Bff's? My homie? My brother from another mother? A sister from another mister?
Hahaha!
Alright, I just thought I would chime in with my wisdom of the ages. Carry-on kiddo. ; )
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkk! Ano ba Sir Prime, it's disgusting.....I can't believe you're gonna piggyback ride on what you earlier said. hahaha..
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i hope the "author" cited the source of the data below.
Ferdinand Marcos was born in Sarrat, Ilocos North, on September 11, 1917, to Josefa Edralin and Mariano Marcos, both teachers. Mariano was later a two-term congressman and during World War II, a collaborator with the Japanese. Subsequently he was tied to four water buffalo by Filipino guerrillas and pulled apart. Marcos' real father, a man Marcos claimed was his "godfather," was a wealthy Chinese named Ferdinand Chua. He was a well-connected municipal judge who was responsible for much of Marcos' unusually good luck. Among other things, Chua paid for young Marcos' schooling and managed to influence the Philippine Supreme Court to throw out the solid testimony which in 1939 had convicted Marcos of murder.
Marcos did well in school, as he had an extraordinary memory which allowed him to quickly memorize complicated texts and recite them forwards or backwards. In college, Marcos' principal interest was the .22-caliber college pistol team. On September 20, 1935, Julio Nalundasan was at home celebrating that day's Congressional election victory over Mariano Marcos when he was shot and killed with a .22-caliber bullet fired by the 18-year-old Marcos. Three years later, the honors student who was in his senior year of law school, was arrested for Nalundasan's murder. A year later, now a law school graduate, he was found guilty "beyond any reasonable doubt." Jailed, Marcos spent six months writing his own 830-page appeal. He also took the Philippine bar exam and passed with scores so high he was accused of cheating. Upon an oral re-examination by the Supreme Court, Marcos scored even higher with his remarkable memory. When the Supreme Court finally took up Marcos's appeal in 1940, the judge in charge (allegedly influenced by Judge Chua) was disposed to simply throw the case out. Marcos was a free man. The next day, he returned to the Supreme Court where he was administered his oath as a lawyer.
Marcos emerged from World War II with the reputation of being the greatest Filipino resistance leader of the war and the most decorated soldier in the U.S. Armed forces. (Marcos served in the U.S. Army at the beginning and the end of the war as a "third lieutenant" on clerical duty, for a time in 1944 he was a U.S. prisoner of war under a death sentence) The Army investigated these claims after the war and found them to be false and "criminal." In fact, Marcos seems to have spent the war on both sides, and at various times, was in hospitals with fevers and stomach pains, possibly from the onset of lupus, the degenerative disease that ultimately ruined his health. In early 1943 in Manila, Marcos concocted a "secret" resistance organization called Ang Mga Maharlika ("Noble Studs") which he claimed consisted of spies, saboteurs and assassins, but in fact consisted of many forgers, pickpockets, gunmen and racketeers, united by an interest in black market operations.
At the war's end, as a deputy to the U.S. Army judge advocate general in northern Luzon, Marcos was involved in choosing friends and relatives to fill minor civil service jobs, passing out favors to be redeemed later. After, he resumed his law practice, often filing false claims in Washington on behalf of Filipino veterans seeking back pay and benefits. Emboldened by his success, he filed a $595,000 claim on his own behalf, stating that the U.S. Army had commandeered over 2,000 head of brahmin cattle from Mariano Marcos's wholly imaginary ranch in Mindinao. Washington concluded that the cattle had never existed. Marcos also tried to get recognition and benefits for his resistance force, the Ang Mga Maharlika; army investigators concluded that Marcos's unit was fraudulent.
In December, 1948, after a luncheon meeting with Marcos, a magazine editor published four articles on Marcos's extraordinary war exploits, including the history of the Maharlika just after the army's findings of fraud. Marcos' reputation grew. In 1949, campaigning on promises to get veterans' benefits for 2 million more "unrecognized" Filipinos, Marcos ran on the Liberal Party ticket for a seat in the Philippine House of Representatives and won astonishingly, with 70 percent of the vote. In less than a year he was worth a million dollars and owned a Cadillac convertible, mostly because of his American tobacco subsidies, a colossal cigarette smuggling operation, and his practice of extorting commissions from Chinese businesses. In 1954 he formally met Imelda Romualdez and married her.
Marcos was reelected twice, and in 1959 was elected to the Philippine Senate. He was also the Liberal Party's vice-president from 1954-1961, when he successfully managed Diosdado Macapagal's campaign for the Philippine presidency. As part of the deal, Macapagal was supposed to step aside after one term to allow Marcos to run for the presidency, but when Macapagal reneged, Marcos joined the opposition Nationalist Party and became their candidate in the 1965 election against Macapagal, which Marcos won handily strongly helped by Hartzell Spence's biography, called For Every Tear A Victory.
In 1969, Marcos became the first Philippine president to win a second term; the month following produced the most violent and bloody public demonstrations so far in the history of the country. Three years later, facing growing student unrest and a crumbling economy, Marcos declared martial law, using as his excuse the growing rebel presence of the Communist New People's Army. During the nine years of martial law, he tripled the armed forces to some 200,000 troops, guaranteeing his grip on government, and when martial law was lifted in 1981, he kept all the power he had been granted by himself. Bled to death, the economy continued to crumble as Ferdinand and Imelda became "arguably the richest couple on the planet." Marcos's health began to fail, the United States cooled off, and political opposition took hold in the Philippine middle class.
The Marcos regime began its accelerated collapse after the August 1983 assassination of Benigno S. Aquino, Jr., gunned down at the Manila airport upon his return after a self-imposed three-year exile. The killing enraged Filipinos, as did the official story that the murder was the work of a single assassin. A year later, a civilian investigation brought indictments against a number of soldiers and government officials, but by 1985 they all had been acquitted. In a surprising blunder, Marcos, thinking to regain control of the situation, called for a "snap election" to be held early in 1986. The election was marred by violence and charges of fraud; his opponent was the martyred Aquino's widow, Corazon. When the Philippine National Assembly announced that Marcos was the winner, a military rebellion, supported by hundreds of thousands of Filipinos marching in the streets, forced the Marcos to flee the country. Marcos' plea to the Americans for help produced nothing more than a U.S. Air Force jet, which flew him and Imelda to Hawaii. He remained there until his death in 1989. They took with them some 300 crates of prized possessions and more than 28 million cash, in Philippine currency. President Aquino's administration said this was only a small part of the Marcos's five to ten billion of illegally acquired wealth; Ferdinand's frozen bank accounts in Switzerland were said to have $475 million. In 1995, the government was able to auction off three jewelry collections worth $13 million.
Economy During MArcos
To help finance a number of economic development projects, the Marcos government borrowed large amounts of money from international lenders.[45][46] The Philippines' external debt rose from $360 million (US) in 1962 to $28.3 billion in 1986, making the Philippines one of the most indebted countries in Asia.[45] A sizable amount of this money went to Marcos family and friends in the form of behest loans. These loans were assumed by the government and still being serviced by taxpayers. Today, more than half of the country's revenues are outlaid for the payments on the interests of loans alone.[citation needed]
Foreign capital was invited to invest in certain industrial projects. They were offered incentives, including tax exemption privileges and the privilege of bringing out their profits in foreign currencies. One of the most important economic programs in the 1980s was the Kilusang Kabuhayan at Kaunlaran (Movement for Livelihood and Progress). This program was started in September 1981. Its aim was to promote the economic development of the barangays by encouraging its residents to engage in their own livelihood projects. The government's efforts resulted in the increase of the nation's economic growth rate to an average of six percent or seven percent from 1970 to 1980.[47]
The Philippine economy suffered a great decline after the Aquino assassination in August 1983. The political troubles hindered the entry of foreign investments, and foreign banks stopped granting loans to the Philippine government.[citation needed] In an attempt to launch a national economic recovery program, Marcos negotiated with foreign creditors including the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, World Bank, and the International Monetary Fund (IMF), for a restructuring of the country's foreign debts – to give the Philippines more time to pay the loans. Marcos ordered a cut in government expenditures and used a portion of the savings to finance the Sariling Sikap (Self-Reliance), a livelihood program he established in 1984.[citation needed]
However, the economy experienced negative economic growth from the beginning of 1984 and continued to decline despite the government's recovery efforts. The recovery program's failure was caused by civil unrest, rampant graft and corruption within the government, and Marcos's lack of credibility. Marcos himself diverted large sums of government money to his party's campaign funds. The unemployment rate ballooned from 6.30% in 1972 to 27.65% in 1985.[48][citation needed]
Between 1972 and 1980, the average monthly income of wage workers had fallen by 20%. By 1981, the wealthiest 10% of the population was receiving twice as much income as the bottom 60%.[49]
With help from the Rockefeller and Ford Foundations, Marcos brought the "Green Revolution" (industrialized, chemical agriculture) to the Philippines. These reforms resulted in high profits for transnational corporations, but were generally harmful to small, peasant farmers who were often pushed into poverty.[50] After declaring martial law in 1972, Marcos promised to implement agrarian reforms. However, the land reforms "served largely to undermine Marcos' landholder opponents, not to lessen inequality in the countryside",[51] and "encouraged conversion to cash tenancy and greater reliance on farm workers".[52] From 1972 to 1980, agricultural production fell by 30%.[49]
Under Marcos, exports of timber products were among the nation's top exports. Little attention was paid to environmental impacts of deforestation. By the early 1980s, the industry collapsed because most of the Philippines' accessible forests had been depleted.[53]
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Fact or Opinion? It's similar with the Egg and Chicken Question, iikot at iikot lang yan, relative yan. And madalas yung mahina lang magreason out ang bumibira niyan.
I will rest my argument here. It's a shame that your talking about logic and reasoning and yet you don't know the difference between the two.
The proper approach for you within this debate (kung debate nga ang tawag mo dito) is to to state that “this is my opinion.” Unfortunately, sinasabi mong ang opinyon mo ay ang totoo na which resulted kaya nag contradict ako dahil wala ka namng maayos na ebidensya maliban sa analysis mo. Opinions are not facts and should not be portrayed as such.
Your using logical fallacy which is an erroneous argument na nakabase lamang sa a faulty logic method mo na nagreresulta sa false conclusion. How many times na nagbanggit ka dito ng false conclusion. Essentially, mga defective arguments that are put forward tapos sinasabi mong valid arguments.
Topics i've posted here is not subject for debate since it was already a fact..
That's the reason why, tinanong kita kung anong pagkakaiba nung dalawa, since na di mo naman pala alam, wala naman tayong dapat pang pagtalunan..
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I will rest my argument here. It's a shame that your talking about logic and reasoning and yet you don't know the difference between the two.
irrelevant ang issue ng favorite attack line mo sa mga posts ko about your thread. fact or opinion question is just a futile exercise manong dimmu. you're trying to lock me at the boxing corner na as if it's your means to your survival. Trying to save your face here? Wala na basag na linya mo eh.
saka tayo magusap sa fact and opinion mo pag marunong ka ng mag-substantiate ng mga pinagpopost mo about Marcos ok?
read books as many as you can.. i still have two weeks of my vacation left before school starts, siguro naman may nabasa ka na kahit isa.
The proper approach for you within this debate (kung debate nga ang tawag mo dito) is to to state that “this is my opinion.” Unfortunately, sinasabi mong ang opinyon mo ay ang totoo na which resulted kaya nag contradict ako dahil wala ka namng maayos na ebidensya maliban sa analysis mo. Opinions are not facts and should not be portrayed as such.
Why did i say I'm right with all of my posts here? Did I force the issue on anyone here that mine are the words of all the sages combined? And before you lecture me on my rationalizations strengthen your reasoning or logical thinking skills first, you're just going on circles in the last 4 or 5 pages of this thread.
Your using logical fallacy which is an erroneous argument na nakabase lamang sa a faulty logic method mo na nagreresulta sa false conclusion. How many times na nagbanggit ka dito ng false conclusion. Essentially, mga defective arguments that are put forward tapos sinasabi mong valid arguments.
Go ahead prove it..Game on Sir Dimmu, ilabas mo na yang knock out punchline este argument mo.. Say something about the topic you started with substance. Come on, kaya mo yan sir Dimmu.
Topics i've posted here is not subject for debate since it was already a fact.. Wow! It's just like an analogy of Zaide telling Ambeth Ocampo that historical facts can't be changed because the former wrote them. Ayos hindi ka lang irrational, dictatorial ka pa! Who you to decide what's debatable or not in an open forum thread? Ano ka nasa China or North Korea na pag may dissenting voice sasabihian na"shut up because i'm the only one who's right?" ganun ba ang logic nun? Enough of your bigotry!
That's the reason why, tinanong kita kung anong pagkakaiba nung dalawa, since na di mo naman pala alam, wala naman tayong dapat pang pagtalunan..
Seems your running away from a fight you have started..Still finding a graceful exit? Should I call the plane and bring you to Paoay or Hawaii Sir Dimmu?
Funny that in your last desperate attempt to change the order of things and unceasing deception you continue to howl differences between Fact and Opinion when the true of issue of your thread doesn't lie there. It's on the manner how you analyze and substantiate the circumstances how those facts and opinions came to be.
Kakahiya, you call yourself a thread starter? Rubbish!
Youl lived and died in an issue not worth being highlighted. Kay gandang thread at topic nasira dahil lang sa kapalaluan mo. Kahit ang mga pantas umaamin na nagkakamali din. Pero sa kahangalan naman nasisira ang kanilang mga salita.
But one thing that I admire on you Sir Dimmu is your pride. ;)
Go Rest and Be at Peace Sir Dimmu! See you on your next journey...on these threads here at www.pinoycyberkada.com (http://www.pinoycyberkada.com) ;D
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nung panahon ni makoy grabeh ang kapangyarihan kasi ng militar...
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makasabat po, ako po ay normal na mamamayan lamang, wala ako masyadong alam sa history hehe, sa palagay ko po tama ung sabi ni yana sa debati nila ni dimmu, ang dame ko natutunan hehe. un lang peace
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ang haba pala ng discussion dito kung saan nakarating' straight to the point ang dalawang panig hehehe
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sabi nga nila "history is written by the victors" kaya kung titingnan natin eh from the time na nagkaroon ng 1986 Edsa Revolution eh pangit na ang tingin ng mga sumunod na generation kay Marcos, idagdag pa natin ang media mileage na nakukuha ng mga galit kay marcos at mga kwento ng mga aktibista. hindi siguro sapat na basehan natin ang nabasa sa isang bahagi ng internet para magconclude agad tayo.
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wow lupet ng thread na ito ah. ano ng nangyari? ang galing dami kong natutunan. sana ganito ang discussions dito parati. kudos sa mga nagparticipate
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Para sakin, si Macoy pa rin ang pinaka magaling na presidente natin..
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eto last word ni President Marcos Kay pres cory noon,
"20 years from now, bagsak na ang Pilipinas - Former Pres. Marcos, 1987 "
galing dito
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCtnIXwv6ZU#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCtnIXwv6ZU#ws)
meron din dito
https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10200540243461715 (https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10200540243461715)
eto meron text version..
http://definitelyfilipino.com/blog/2011/10/13/ang-huling-pag-asa-ng-pilipinas-4/comment-page-1/ (http://definitelyfilipino.com/blog/2011/10/13/ang-huling-pag-asa-ng-pilipinas-4/comment-page-1/)
hindi ko kasi macopy paste..
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my parents and folks say marcos is the greatest philippine president. baka nga totoo.
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Wala na bang kadugtong ito, sana mabuhay ulit itong thread na ito. HEHE
Ma'am yana and Sir dimmu balik na po kayo.
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Tomas, thanks for reading our debate. Yeah I kinda miss this thread too. See you around here. ;)
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This thread just gave me a brain twisting tune up... All the comments are worth reading.
Kudos to all contributors here..;)
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Bakit si Marcos ang pinagbibintangan na pumatay kay Ninoy? Bukas anniversary nanaman ng kamatayan ni Ninoy.
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Gulo ng usapan. haha. Basta binaon ni Marcos sa utang ang Pilipinas, yun yon. Sa umpisa ng termino ni Marcos, ang exchange rate e $1 = Php 2.00. Nung umalis sya, ang $1 naging Php 20++ na. Marami syang pinakulong nang walang due process, marami syang ninakaw. So hindi talaga ma-process ng utak ko kung bakit andami pa ring nagsasabing si Marcos ang pinakamagaling na presidente ng Pilipinas.
Post Merge: August 20, 2015, 03:41:09 PM
Bakit si Marcos ang pinagbibintangan na pumatay kay Ninoy? Bukas anniversary nanaman ng kamatayan ni Ninoy.
Dahil sa mga sumusunod na kadahilanan:
1. Si Ninoy ang pinakamalaking kalaban ni Marcos nun. Marcos would have a motive, lalu na kung gusto nyang patahimikin ang oposisyon.
2. Hawak ni Marcos ang military nun. Sabi nga ni Bongbong kamakailan lang, in criticism of how PNoy handled the SAF44 crisis, alam na alam ni Ferdie lahat ng mga nangyayari sa military, since he's the commander in chief and he has command responsibility. Military ang may hawak kay Ninoy habang sya'y bumababa sa eroplano nun. Put two and two together, and you get...?
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well hindi ako maka marcos pero isa lang ang nakita ko sa kaniyang panunungkulan, madame ang nagnais na mag aklas sa gobyerno niya.. So para sakin hindi siya ang pinakamagaling na naging presidente nang pinas... siya ang pinaka Corrupt na naging presidente natin...
Vote Binay!!!! siya ang pinakamagaling na magiging presidente nang Pilipinas... isama mo na din ang pangungurakot dyan...
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my parents and folks say marcos is the greatest philippine president. baka nga totoo.
Everyone has a "say" to everything but that doesn't mean that their opinions are facts.