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Civil Engineer or Architect

latrell · 57 · 28226

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Offline hatch

Reply #45 on: August 23, 2015, 06:38:08 PM

sa tagal na natin bilang isang civil engineer ito naman ang pananaw ko rito vs sa mga architects: ang isang bahay or let say meduim to small scale buildings pwede na sa atin ang civil engineer lang na gagawa at magdesign man ng bahay or building na yan dahil kong well experienced ka ng civil engineer ay lahat kabisado muna lahat ng aspeto sa Construction mula foundation footing up to Finishing stage plus mga architectural facilities, structurals, and utilities outside and inside the house or da buildings such as the accessories from plumbing to the decorative inside finishing such as painting mouldings, fixtures and etcccss pa. Pero kong nalilimat lang ang kaalaman natin mga civil engineer sa construction site lang at hindi pa tayo masyado pamilyar sa mga ibat ibang aspeto sa bahay man or buildings ay sgurado mahihirapan tayo,
Sa Architetural aspects, kalimitan sa mga multi storey verticalbuildings or facilities or infra structures dyan pumapasok ang mga Architects para sa designs lalu sa Looks outside and inside of the buildings pero sa kanila limited ang kanilang knowledge lalu na pagdating mismo sa actual concept sa mismong mga pundasyon ng mga buildings, at hindi ako sang-ayon na ang mga Architects lang ang parating frontline sa isang Construction dahil hindi tatayo ang partikular na Buildings na mga yan kong wala tayong mga Civil Engineers na titingin or susupervise sa actual Construction. Let say sa isang road construction horizontal projects - sa tingin ninyo kailangan pa ba ng isang Architect dyan? Dito sa abroad lalu dito sa Oil and Gas ang parati kailangan dito ay mga Civil Engineers.


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Re: Civil Engineer or Architect
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2015, 06:38:08 PM »

Offline suicideking

Reply #46 on: August 23, 2015, 09:39:27 PM
sa tagal na natin bilang isang civil engineer ito naman ang pananaw ko rito vs sa mga architects: ang isang bahay or let say meduim to small scale buildings pwede na sa atin ang civil engineer lang na gagawa at magdesign man ng bahay or building na yan
mawalang-galang na sir, please refer to the picture below:

oo nga, walang papantay sa "experience", pero sana magkaroon pa rin ng "ethics" along with it. besides, may batas naman na dapat sundin.


dahil kong well experienced ka ng civil engineer ay lahat kabisado muna lahat ng aspeto sa Construction mula foundation footing up to Finishing stage plus mga architectural facilities, structurals, and utilities outside and inside the house or da buildings such as the accessories from plumbing to the decorative inside finishing such as painting mouldings, fixtures and etcccss pa.

sana pati batas natin e kabisado mo na rin dahil sa experience mo sir.

aba, lahat na yata ng engineering disciplines e alam mo na dahil sa experience mo. sabi ko nga, walang masama sa experience na yan, plus factor yan para sa isang project. pero kung gagampanan mo yang lahat e sana kinuha mo na rin noong college ka pa yung:
1. Architecture
2. Sanitary Engineering
3. Electrical Engineering
4. Mechanical Engineering



Pero kong nalilimat lang ang kaalaman natin mga civil engineer sa construction site lang at hindi pa tayo masyado pamilyar sa mga ibat ibang aspeto sa bahay man or buildings ay sgurado mahihirapan tayo,
Sa Architetural aspects, kalimitan sa mga multi storey verticalbuildings or facilities or infra structures dyan pumapasok ang mga Architects
akala ko "well-experienced" ka na sir? pero tila limitado lang yata ang kaalaman mo tungkol sa mga arkitekto?
 


para sa designs lalu sa Looks outside and inside of the buildings pero sa kanila limited ang kanilang knowledge lalu na pagdating mismo sa actual concept sa mismong mga pundasyon ng mga buildings,
siyempre, trabaho ng structural engineer yan di ba? bakit namin papakialaman?


at hindi ako sang-ayon na ang mga Architects lang ang parating frontline sa isang Construction dahil hindi tatayo ang partikular na Buildings na mga yan kong wala tayong mga Civil Engineers na titingin or susupervise sa actual Construction.
we are "front-lining" (as per your term) dahil meron kaming "PRE-DESIGN SERVICES", we gather the NEEDS of the client, even their way of life as to incorporate them into the design of their house (talking on a smaller scale, residential house). I posted this a while ago, assuming na hindi PAPAKIALAMAN ng civil engineer ang trabaho ng arkitekto, ano sasabihin mo sa client kapag magpapagawa siya ng bahay?  "MAM/SIR, BALE ETO PO YUNG SUKAT NG BAKAL AT LAKI NG BIGA PARA SA PINAPLANO NINYONG IPATAYONG BAHAY...SAKA NANDITO NA RIN PO YUNG LOCATION NG MGA FOUNDATION NA LALAGYAN NATIN NG DUGO NG MANOK"....
so ano ang itatayo mo kung wala namang plano ang bahay?

ikaw magdedesign? (refer to the image attached again)



Let say sa isang road construction horizontal projects - sa tingin ninyo kailangan pa ba ng isang Architect dyan? Dito sa abroad lalu dito sa Oil and Gas ang parati kailangan dito ay mga Civil Engineers.
malamang hindi, hindi naman sakop ng isang ARCHITECT yan.

tell me, ano ang connection ng Oil and Gas sa isang architect?

siguro sa BRIDGE DESIGN pwede pa, AESTHETIC DESIGN NOT STRUCTURAL. No more no less.




Way back, dati sakop ng isang arkitekto ang Interior Design. Then nagkaroon ng batas na gawing professional (under PRC of course) ang Interior Designer. Now we cannot sign any documents under interior design, unless may license ka nito.

dati ang Landscape e parte lang ng trabaho namin bilang arkitekto. ngayon meron nang Landscape Architects (under PRC din). the same law, unless may license ka nito.

bottom line, hindi kami nang-aagaw ng propesyon.

ang kay Juan, kay Juan. ang kay Pedro kay Pedro.



lastly, I do know some CE (friends actually, we are on the same industry anyway), na gumagawa din ng mga sinabi mo...they produce architectural plans, specs, etc...BUT, bilang pag-galang sa BATAS at sa ibang propesyon, hindi nila pinipirmahan ang mga ito.

just in case sir, pandagdag sa EXPERIENCE mo.


Offline hatch

Reply #47 on: August 24, 2015, 01:02:21 AM

again if ur still a neopthyes in the construction world then the limitation seperation of all professions differs sa kanya kanya natin nakuhang kurso at profession sa ngayon, ang sa akin lang ay hindi ako sasangyon na ang Architect lang daw ang syang namumuno at syang pinapakinggan sa Construction, Tama ka hindi nga kayo nang-aagaw ng propoesyun pero yung iba kong umasta sila na ang meron ari at sila na ang nagpapatupad sa Construction. Kong ilan taon ka palang sa Construction siguro hndi mo pa ito napapansin iho. Sa kanya kanya taoyng profession ay meron or kanya kanya tayong works disipline sa ating mga trabaho at Coordination dapat hindi kong kayong mga Architects kong umasta ay akala nya kayo lang ay pwede na makabuo at magpatakbo sa isang Construction, hindi sa lahat pero karamihan !


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Re: Civil Engineer or Architect
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2015, 01:02:21 AM »

Offline suicideking

Reply #48 on: August 24, 2015, 02:16:54 PM
again if ur still a neopthyes in the construction world then the limitation seperation of all professions differs sa kanya kanya natin nakuhang kurso at profession sa ngayon,
I don't get it.

are you trying to say that if you are "experienced" enough, that you can just easily take over the profession of others? kindly enlighten us sir.




ang sa akin lang ay hindi ako sasangyon na ang Architect lang daw ang syang namumuno at syang pinapakinggan sa Construction,
of course nobody will agree if your own profession is not on the top of the chain.

it just so happens that an Architect is the one beside the client (again, I am talking about a residential house only for EASY scale of understanding regarding projects).

do you think the CLIENT will approach the CE to confirm the FINISHING MATERIALS being used on his/her house? which by the way is SPECIFIED by the ARCHITECT in the SPECIFICATION DOCUMENT?

In the event that a CE specified such finishing, I think it is against the law. why? simply because it is a FINISHING SPECIFICATIONS. simply it is ARCHITECTURAL FINISHES. NOT STRUCTURAL FINISHES.

Kelan pa naging ARCHITECT ang isang CIVIL ENGINEER? unless you also have a license to practice architecture.




Tama ka hindi nga kayo nang-aagaw ng propoesyun pero yung iba kong umasta sila na ang meron ari at sila na ang nagpapatupad sa Construction.
it is because we are, as a designer, the main SAFEGUARD of the CLIENT.

again, a residential house for example, we did the planning from the start up to the finishing touches of the CLIENT's house. We as his architect act as his own supervisor (under construction supervision services) to PROTECT him/her from the CONTRACTOR.

now, protection from what?

Protection from CHEATING. We make sure that ALL of the SPECIFIED materials are being installed. We make sure that ALL construction methods are being followed.




Kong ilan taon ka palang sa Construction siguro hndi mo pa ito napapansin iho.
I don't know. maybe your working environment is not the same as mine. It doesn't matter matter how long you have been in the industry to FOLLOW THE CHAIN OF COMMAND.

even my foreman (50 y/o then) followed ALL my instructions when I was on my first year being a professional. it doesn't matter to him even he has the longer exposure, what matter to him is he is doing his job and following the right thing for the sake of the project. without the BITTERNESS.



Sa kanya kanya taoyng profession ay meron or kanya kanya tayong works disipline sa ating mga trabaho at Coordination dapat hindi kong kayong mga Architects kong umasta ay akala nya kayo lang ay pwede na makabuo at magpatakbo sa isang Construction, hindi sa lahat pero karamihan !
so why don't you prove to yourself and to them that you deserved to be on TOP?

sabi mo nga, MATAGAL kana sa construction, so bakit may mga ARCHITECTS pa rin sa ibabaw mo?


Offline hoticecream

Reply #49 on: August 30, 2015, 01:31:22 PM
suicideking, you nailed it! thumbs up for you.  :brucelee1: :-X

Post Merge: August 30, 2015, 01:44:39 PM
i am assuming that hatch is a veteran in construction in the philippines (having read all his stake about the subject)...and we'd like to know if do you have any international experience working abroad, worked for a site supervision/lead architectural & engg firm of a certain project? With your answer we would know and can tell where your "well experienced" kind of experience stands.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 01:44:39 PM by hoticecream »


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Re: Civil Engineer or Architect
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2015, 01:31:22 PM »

Offline naruto789544

Reply #50 on: August 30, 2015, 10:55:58 PM
humaba na ang thread...  :)
i respect sir hatch's opinion and i would never question his point of view on the matter... anyway, just to cite my experience in the construction field, be it a residential, industrial or commercial one, the owners normally talks with the architect regarding the work and it's progress... and this had been my experience here and abroad for a very long time already...


Offline fayt

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Reply #51 on: September 02, 2015, 12:55:00 PM
May inquiry lang ako..

May instance ba na isang bagay na itatayo at nakadesign na ay hindi apubado ng isang engineer dahil sa ibat ibang factor like yun lupa titirikan ng isang infrastructure etc.

e.g.

Ako na isang client eh gusto ko magpatayo ng isang gusali sa isang lugar na gusto ko. Kumontak ako ng isang arkitekto para dito. Nagdesign ang isang arkitektong ayon sa gusto ko.

In this case, may chance ba na madisapprove ng isang engineer ang design at sasabihin hindi pwedeng itayo ang isang gusali? (assume some factors na hindi maitatayo ang isang gusali)

kanino ba ang burden kung hindi maitatayo ang isang gusali? Sa engineer na dapat gawan ng paraan para masunod ang isang design ng arkitekto na naayon sa kagustuhan ng kliyente? O sa arkitekto na dapat ibahin ang designed nya na naayon sa pagsusuri ng isang engineer?

good thread actually thanks to contributor i.e. hatch, hoticecream, naruto, suicideking et. al.


>>Dear teachers
Di porket pare pareho kami ng sagot, nagkopyahan na kami. May sagot ba na iba iba? Ano yun, originality?
----- Shin Chan


Offline suicideking

Reply #52 on: September 02, 2015, 02:59:41 PM
May inquiry lang ako..

May instance ba na isang bagay na itatayo at nakadesign na ay hindi apubado ng isang engineer dahil sa ibat ibang factor like yun lupa titirikan ng isang infrastructure etc.
meron po...


e.g.

Ako na isang client eh gusto ko magpatayo ng isang gusali sa isang lugar na gusto ko. Kumontak ako ng isang arkitekto para dito. Nagdesign ang isang arkitektong ayon sa gusto ko.
unang una po, hindi makakatapos ng KUMPLETONG disensyo (complete, as in lahat ng uri ng drawing para makapagpatayo ng project) ang isang arkitekto kung walang coordination mula sa iba't ibang engineer.


In this case, may chance ba na madisapprove ng isang engineer ang design at sasabihin hindi pwedeng itayo ang isang gusali? (assume some factors na hindi maitatayo ang isang gusali)

kuhanin natin yung una mong assumption, "lupang titirikan". halimbawa gusto mong patayo ng mataas na gusali, subalit sa "soil test" e hindi kaya ang ganitong uri ng gusali. so, PRIMARILY hindi talaga makakagawa ang isang arkitekto ng disenyo para dito dahil sasabihin na kaagad ng engineer na hindi pwede.

to simplify, hindi gagawa ang arkitekto ng design na masasayang lang.



kanino ba ang burden kung hindi maitatayo ang isang gusali? Sa engineer na dapat gawan ng paraan para masunod ang isang design ng arkitekto na naayon sa kagustuhan ng kliyente? O sa arkitekto na dapat ibahin ang designed nya na naayon sa pagsusuri ng isang engineer?

again, sa umpisa pa lang dapat ay plantsado na, may coordination na, hanggang sa ma-meet ang best para sa proyekto.

ganunpaman, lahat ay posible para sa isang proyekto. isa sa naging project ko noon ay bahay ng pinsan ko, yung lote nya ay malambot, BURAK ang karamihan nito. naitayo namin 3rd floor pa, dahil magaling ang structural engineer kong kasama.

sabi nga, THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT (CLIENT in our case). sila ang magbabayad, sila ang gagamit. bilang professional, gagawin natin ang lahat ng gusto ng kliyente PERO DAPAT ITO AY NAAAYON SA BATAS.



good thread actually thanks to contributor i.e. hatch, hoticecream, naruto, suicideking et. al.

you're welcome!


Offline hoticecream

Reply #53 on: September 02, 2015, 03:48:31 PM
To answer your question (in bold text):

May inquiry lang ako..

May instance ba na isang bagay na itatayo at nakadesign na ay hindi apubado ng isang engineer dahil sa ibat ibang factor like yun lupa titirikan ng isang infrastructure etc.

e.g.

Ako na isang client eh gusto ko magpatayo ng isang gusali sa isang lugar na gusto ko. Kumontak ako ng isang arkitekto para dito. Nagdesign ang isang arkitektong ayon sa gusto ko.

In this case, may chance ba na madisapprove ng isang engineer ang design at sasabihin hindi pwedeng itayo ang isang gusali? (assume some factors na hindi maitatayo ang isang gusali)
A:  C:-) First of all, i just would like to give a clarity not only to the readers but especially to the entire public who used to have the idea that all technical staff in the municipality are all engineers (commonly thought being civil/mep technical staff)..meron din naman na tinatawag na environmental & heritage/city planning department kung saan usually ang mga nagrereview & approve ng bawat project prosposal ay mga tinatawag na architectural engineers/urban planners (these authorities are mostly composed of architects/urban planners & environmental specialist such as biologist with masters degree and have already gained a lot of experiences in the past). Sa kanila unang dumadaan ang proposed bldg and see if it conforms to the zoning plan of the city... (e.g if a client/owners wants to construct a leisure site sa isang island, but if as per the city zoning plan says that these islands are inhabited with marine species especially monitored species, automatically rejected na ang proposed project na yan and will never proceed to any of the subsequent departments for review and approval. There maybe some conditions thou that these certain kind of projects such as these leisure sites can be granted provided that the client/owner shall be asked an undertaking oath and to be attested in agreement and to conform with the concerned department condition to protect and make sustainable of the project in order not to compromise any single important aspect within the scope project and its adjacent areas.  >:(


kanino ba ang burden kung hindi maitatayo ang isang gusali? Sa engineer na dapat gawan ng paraan para masunod ang isang design ng arkitekto na naayon sa kagustuhan ng kliyente? O sa arkitekto na dapat ibahin ang designed nya na naayon sa pagsusuri ng isang engineer?
A: All concerned project stakeholders has to cooperate and contribute their expertise knowledge as they are hired by the client/owner in order to make the project into a reality. If there is a necessity to revise the architect's design of the project just to meet the technical requirements as per the municipality, then the architect of the project will be obliged to do so of the revision  :(  :book1:, then resubmit all the drawings  again to the municipality for review and approval prior to execution at site.

good thread actually thanks to contributor i.e. hatch, hoticecream, naruto, suicideking et. al.


Offline fayt

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Reply #54 on: September 02, 2015, 04:13:31 PM
Maraming salamat sa tugon sa aking katanungan mga arkitek.  :-X :-X
>>Dear teachers
Di porket pare pareho kami ng sagot, nagkopyahan na kami. May sagot ba na iba iba? Ano yun, originality?
----- Shin Chan


Offline naruto789544

Reply #55 on: September 07, 2015, 02:30:37 AM
nice answers and i agree to all stated... to sum it up... it is the owner who will always have the final say in a project... it is up to the architect and the engineers to make the project feasible and as much as possible conform to the requirements of the owner without sacrificing aesthetics, economic, functionality and safety...


Offline PuGeNgPuGe29

Reply #56 on: September 23, 2015, 12:40:42 AM
Help me!!!!

I'm on the verge of giving up on my studies (not due to financial or whatsoever...)
But I feel like parang wala nang saysay yung ginagawa ko... same routine as always
Help me motivate myself

4th year Civil Engineering student


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Re: Civil Engineer or Architect
« Reply #56 on: September 23, 2015, 12:40:42 AM »

 


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