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Civil Engineer or Architect

latrell · 57 · 28212

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Offline naruto789544

Reply #30 on: July 27, 2015, 12:08:37 AM
wow architect pala ang may pananagutan sa lahat. ngayon ko lang nalaman iyon

it really depends sir... there is always a check and balance between the two that's why i am saying that they two should be properly coordinating with each other in order for the work to be successful...


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Re: Civil Engineer or Architect
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2015, 12:08:37 AM »

Offline uchiha_nejer

Reply #31 on: July 27, 2015, 02:31:37 AM
yun ang sabi sa post ni suicideking e. technically, arki daw may pananagutan sa lahat. aba'y di na pala kailangan ng mga engineers e. yey


Offline suicideking

Reply #32 on: July 28, 2015, 02:44:10 PM
yun ang sabi sa post ni suicideking e. technically, arki daw may pananagutan sa lahat. aba'y di na pala kailangan ng mga engineers e. yey

I think you missed the context. And also, don't say na "di na pala kailangan ng mga engineers" --mali yan.

Para malinawan ka: halimbawa isang bahay ang project, the architect designs the house (plans, elevations, etc)...then the civil engr. for the structural, elec. engr. for the electrical and lighting, sanitary engr. for the plumbing and sewer system and so on...

now here's the scenario: without any force majeure, may nakita ang may-ari ng bahay na "cracks" sa mga poste. definitely magrereklamo siya and will try to convey/complain it to the one who did his house. sabi ko sa unang post ko, sino ba ang lalapitan mo kapag magpapagawa ka ng bahay? arkitekto di ba? hindi ka naman lalapit sa isang civil engineer para gawin agad ang poste at biga ng bahay mo kasi nga wala pang plano.

moving on, so the owner will contact the architect who designed his house. READ: may crack sa poste. even the architect did not design the post/column of the house, siya pa rin ang nilapitan/pinagreklamuhan nung may-ari ng bahay. bakit? kasi siya ang "overall in-charge" sa design ng bahay na ipinagawa.

liable si architect kasi "kasama" niya sa pagdedesign si civil engr. now, papayag ba naman ako bilang architect na sagutin na lang ang reklamo na labas sa ginawa ko? siyempre hindi. liable ang arkitekto, pero may investigation and will boil down kung sino talaga ang may sala.

AGAIN, please read through the context. And don't ever say na "hindi na kailangan ng engineers".


Post Merge: July 28, 2015, 02:53:18 PM
eto pa oh, simple and very understandable illustration:

« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 02:53:18 PM by suicideking »


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Re: Civil Engineer or Architect
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2015, 02:44:10 PM »

Offline uchiha_nejer

Reply #33 on: July 29, 2015, 05:58:20 AM
@suicideking binasa ko lang uli yung post mo. nabanggit mo talaga na "technically, arkitekto ang may pananagutan sa lahat". kung iintindihin ko siya mabuti, dahil may "technically", ano meaning nun? technically, yes. pero actually, no? kasi ang may pananagutan sa struct, e struc, elec e elec, etc etc. pero OVERALL, architect ang may pananagutan, tama ba? dahil kayo ang nagiging "Construction Supervisor / Manager", kayo ang nag e ensure na lahat ng plans or designs ng mga engineers (at ng iba pang arki) e na co comply? so pag mapapatayo ng bahay, mas advisable na kumuha ako ng Arki para maging Site Engineer or Supervisor kasi mas maiintindihan niyo kung paano maisakatuparan ang mga nasa plano?

tanong ko lang uli, sa bahay, ano ba madalas na ireklamo sa arki? kasi sabi mo nga, pag sa mga biga o poste, civil/struc. pag sanitary, ung mga tubo, and so on. so ano yung mga madalas mo na ma encounter na "issue" na siguradong pang arki talaga.


Offline suicideking

Reply #34 on: July 29, 2015, 01:58:53 PM
@suicideking binasa ko lang uli yung post mo. nabanggit mo talaga na "technically, arkitekto ang may pananagutan sa lahat". kung iintindihin ko siya mabuti, dahil may "technically", ano meaning nun? technically, yes. pero actually, no? kasi ang may pananagutan sa struct, e struc, elec e elec, etc etc. pero OVERALL, architect ang may pananagutan, tama ba? dahil kayo ang nagiging "Construction Supervisor / Manager", kayo ang nag e ensure na lahat ng plans or designs ng mga engineers (at ng iba pang arki) e na co comply?
please read my post prior to this, nasagot na dun ang mga tanong na to. all you need is to understand, especially the example I gave.

@suicidekingso pag mapapatayo ng bahay, mas advisable na kumuha ako ng Arki para maging Site Engineer or Supervisor kasi mas maiintindihan niyo kung paano maisakatuparan ang mga nasa plano?
as the client, you have the FREEDOM to choose whoever you want to be your Site Supervisor --as long as "nakakaintindi" siya ng plano at construction, for your protection. Me as an architect, I myself serves as a protection to my client..why? siyempre kailangan kong SIGURUHIN na NASUSUNOD ang mga iginuhit kong plano. kapag kasi hindi ito nasunod, or may maling nagawa si CONTRACTOR, at ito ay naging sanhi ng diperensya o anumang aberya, so AKO ANG MAY PANANAGUTAN.

I am not saying that I understand the structural plans 100%, siyempre kung may tanong o alinlangan ako sa structural, tatawagin ko si civil engr. para i-verify. kaya nga dapat may COORDINATION hindi ba?

ganun din naman in case na engr ang magiging supervisor, kapag may hindi siya naliliwanagan sa plano ng arkitekto o ibang engr, kailangan ng coodination.

so please, don't "ASSUME" words like "...mas advisable na kumuha ako ng Arki para maging Site Engineer or Supervisor kasi.."


@suicideking tanong ko lang uli, sa bahay, ano ba madalas na ireklamo sa arki? kasi sabi mo nga, pag sa mga biga o poste, civil/struc. pag sanitary, ung mga tubo, and so on. so ano yung mga madalas mo na ma encounter na "issue" na siguradong pang arki talaga.
based on my experience sa residential, madalas ireklamo ng mga client ay ang FINISHING MATERIALS.

lalo na sa mga client na "kuripot" ba, gusto ibaba ang presyo, makatipid. pero kapag nandyan na yung materyales, or kapag isasama mo na mamili ng "cheap" brands e hindi mo na alam ang gagawin.

same sa PAINTS. after ilang months kumukupas daw. well talaga namang kukupas at kukupas ang pintura over time. lalo na yung mga matitingkad na kulay. one time I advised na huwag na ito ang ipintura (PURPLE) kasi madalas kumukupas yan ng mabilis lalo na sa atin madalas umulan, so being the customer is always right, ayun kumupas nga.




I hope somehow nalinawan ka na sir.

Pag may tanong ka pa feel free to ask.



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Re: Civil Engineer or Architect
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2015, 01:58:53 PM »

Offline hoticecream

Reply #35 on: July 29, 2015, 06:31:55 PM
tama ang sinabi ni suicideking...ang arkitekto ang pinaka incharge sa buong plano ng isang bldg..but that doesnt relieved that responsibility of the structural/civil & mep engrs...mey pananagutan din sila..pero technically lahat ng decision manggagaling sa lead project site architect (architect-of-record in municipality)..sa pinas lang naman kasi yang nakakapirma ang mga civil engineers ng architectural plans..substandard kasi ang practice sa pinas wala sa ayos..example na lang dyan ang RA 9266...ang titigas ng mga mukha ng PICE makipaglaban at pinipilit na pwedeng pumirma ang mga civil engrs sa architectural plans. Sa construction site, ang architect ang hari sa project, sunod sunoran lang yang mga civil/site engrs. Oo merong mga senior resident engineers pero hanggang clientele roles lang hinahawakan nila, kung ano ang dikta o decision ng senior/junior site architect sila ang masusunod...otherwise NCR ang mapapala ng project manager issued by the architects by virtue vested by the client.



Post Merge: July 29, 2015, 06:50:35 PM
I'm an architect.

Let me explain some basic points regarding your querries. A simple example, say you (as a client) want to build your house.

First of all, tama ka, dapat may "collaboration" (or cooperation) talaga between these professionals. Now, magpapagawa ka ng bahay di ba? hindi naman pwedeng lalapit ka agad sa isang electrical engr. para gawin ang electrical lines kasi nga wala pang plano. ganun din sa civil engr, paano sila magde-design ng mga poste kung ang hawak mo pa lang e ang titulo ng lupa nyo di ba?

so you will primarily go to an architect to "design and plan" your house according to your needs.

after that, kapag plantsado na ang plano at design ng bahay mo, that's the time na papasok na sa eksena ang ibang ehinyero. you can have your own to suggest, pero usually lalo na sa mga design firms e kumpleto na may engineers na rin sila for the purpose of proper coordination.

now regarding the "liabilities"...madalas nauungkat lang naman ito kapag may masamang nangyari (huwag naman sana). tama ka, structural engr. liable sa structural components, electrical engr. sa electrical and so on. for a certain number of years ba kamo? I'm not in particular sa "years" na iyan lalo na sa ibang propesyon aside from mine. to answer the question, yes of course meron kaming pananagutan. pero how many years?

maybe sa electrical may limit, kasi sa wear and tear ng materiales. the same as the structural, pag luma na talaga ang building, hindi na sagutin. sa amin naman, bilang ako ang "overall" designer ng bahay mo, kung bumagsak ang bahay mo sagutin ko pa rin yan dahil ako ang may design nyan. of course kasali si structural engr kung doon ang cause.

technically, kaming mga arkitekto ang may pananagutan sa lahat. parte kasi ng design namin ang mga poste na gawa ng civil, ang mga ilaw at kable na gawa ng electrical at mga tubo na galing sa sanitary. that's why it is our job to insure that proper design is being followed and applied on site.

ilang taon ang pananagutan ng isang arkitekto?

para sa akin lifetime. kung ang mga cable wire na gawa ng electrical e nauupod (wear and tear), kung ang mga poste at bakal e rumurupok, ang design namin e permanente na dyan. sabi nga ng aking guro noon, hangga't naroon ang pirma mo sa mga plano, sagutin mo ito.

of course kapag may binago na sa "original" plans mo, hindi mo na sagutin yan.





Naku paktay tayo dyan ser, lifetime mo papasanin ang pananagutan. ang saklap nyan ser.

Lets make the uae an example na lang since uae does often strict compliance on the international bldg code. An architect’s liability may be limited in the case where he or she did not supervise the execution of the plans or the installation was meant to be erected for less than ten years.  It is important to make it clear in a contract that the scope of the architect’s work is limited to designing the drawings and plans for the building or installation in order to limit the liability of the architect to design errors under UAE law.  Any structural error would then become the liability of the contractor. Bottom line....the architect may be jointly liable with the contractor for defects for ten years only  if the contract is not drafted properly. I happened to know these as i experienced almost 5 years in project administration (lead architects of the project), part of our job is securing construction permits (just to assist the project manager but its really the main contractors responsibility to secure/make followups in the municipality for permits/NOC)..so i was able to know the requirements as per municipality.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 06:58:05 PM by hoticecream »


Offline naruto789544

Reply #36 on: August 01, 2015, 12:11:10 AM
just want to add some inputs...  one important reason on why the architect is normally the one in charge is that clients tend to see the final outcome of the project... very seldom do clients question the foundations, the structural integrity of the structure etc.... they might ask some question regarding this and then drift toward other works... what clients normally wants and ask are the following:
a. are the space requirements followed...
b. is the interior and exterior aesthetics appealing...
c. are the ventilation, circulation, lighting etc good...
d. were the materials specifications followed...
e. is the finishing works acceptable...
f. are we on time based on the schedule..
g. and are we still on budget...

this questions basically are within the work description of the architect... always remember, clients always see the final outcome of the work... they base their judgment on the beauty, functionality and economics of your work...


Offline hoticecream

Reply #37 on: August 01, 2015, 03:15:06 PM
bakal, concreto,  pagcocompute ng pera, scheduling at pag oautocad drafting lang naman ang alam ng civil engr. wala naman sa course outline nila sa kolehiyo yang mga yan..Yung iba natututo na rin mag 3d modelling at rendering kasi syempre di maiwasang naiinggit sa gawain ng pang arkitekto.


Offline suicideking

Reply #38 on: August 02, 2015, 09:11:22 PM
bakal, concreto,  pagcocompute ng pera, scheduling at pag oautocad drafting lang naman ang alam ng civil engr. wala naman sa course outline nila sa kolehiyo yang mga yan..Yung iba natututo na rin mag 3d modelling at rendering kasi syempre di maiwasang naiinggit sa gawain ng pang arkitekto.

yup.

yan lang ang alam nila. which is one of the MAIN ingredient of the DESIGN.

please don't flame.


Offline uchiha_nejer

Reply #39 on: August 03, 2015, 06:03:25 AM
ayos! ;)

pag dumating yung oras na di na aso at pusa ang mga arkis at engineers e uunlad na siguro ang Pinas hehehe

mag open forum siguro ung PICE saka UAP para ma clarify ung mga points, tapos ma delineate ang mga responsibilities. sama na yung PRC. mag close door ung mga top honchos. brain storming, hindi away. tapos kung ano ang mapagkasunduan e mag pirmahan hehehe.


Offline suicideking

Reply #40 on: August 03, 2015, 09:08:34 PM
ayos! ;)

pag dumating yung oras na di na aso at pusa ang mga arkis at engineers e uunlad na siguro ang Pinas hehehe

mag open forum siguro ung PICE saka UAP para ma clarify ung mga points, tapos ma delineate ang mga responsibilities. sama na yung PRC. mag close door ung mga top honchos. brain storming, hindi away. tapos kung ano ang mapagkasunduan e mag pirmahan hehehe.

actually may existing LAW na regarding that. who will do this and who will do that.

mapurol lang ang pangil ng gobyerno natin.


Offline hoticecream

Reply #41 on: August 04, 2015, 06:57:38 PM
kaya mapurol kasi atin atin lang naman yaan dyan sa pinas parang nagbahay bahayan lang ika nga..walang kwentang mga batas..kayang bayaran ng mey pera.


Offline erah

Reply #42 on: August 14, 2015, 10:18:27 PM
Industrial engineering   student po ako... ano po ba ang pag kakaiba nito sa civil engg?  ???
Erah-your friendly kapitbahay....


Offline naruto789544

Reply #43 on: August 14, 2015, 11:43:01 PM
Industrial engineering   student po ako... ano po ba ang pag kakaiba nito sa civil engg?  ???

here's the basic difference...

civil engineers designs structures such as buildings, roads, bridges, plants etc...
industrial engineers designs and implement methods mostly for industrial plants to make it more efficient... it is more applied science for systems...


Offline erah

Reply #44 on: August 15, 2015, 09:57:11 AM
here's the basic difference...

civil engineers designs structures such as buildings, roads, bridges, plants etc...
industrial engineers designs and implement methods mostly for industrial plants to make it more efficient... it is more applied science for systems...
  ah ok,, salamat po kase pagkakaintindi ko kase more on management yung I E....
Erah-your friendly kapitbahay....


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Re: Civil Engineer or Architect
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2015, 09:57:11 AM »

 


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